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Jazz VS Rockets Game Thread

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Handlogten's Heros said:
Ricky has been not very awesome. Defense was good. Culture wise he's amazing. Offense its a bad fit. We made it work last year, but if he doesn't figure things out soon I'm not sure why we are forcing the round peg into the square hole. We don't need a traditional pg with our system... George Hill thrived and is not a "true pg".

I think Ricky eventually comes around but it is really bad and even when its good I find it hard to trust him.
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Dante brings the ball up and gets it into Donovan's hands as quickly as possible... BAM.
 
I think at the 10-12 game mark it is appropriate to make a change to the starting lineup if things are still trending the way they currently are.
 
rare144 said:
Hey man i'm just saying, if X was an awesome PG he'd be starting. He can score better than Rubio no doubt.
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Look Ricky brings leadership and toughness, Quin trusts him, so do his team mates. Dante's play thus far has been ok if he continues and improves and ricky doesn't (which is unlikely) rickys contract situation at the end of the year becomes interesting.
 
str8line said:
Dante brings the ball up and gets it into Donovan's hands as quickly as possible... BAM.
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Or Joe... or any of the guys bring it up... or if Crowder is out there he can bring it up on a grab and go... or if we really want to win championships Niang can play and do the grab and go.

The running the team is a bit over-rated if you are shooting less than 25% turning the ball over and the defense is basically ignoring you.
 
Rubashov said:
Look Ricky brings leadership and toughness, Quin trusts him, so do his team mates. Dante's play thus far has been ok if he continues and improves and ricky doesn't (which is unlikely) rickys contract situation at the end of the year becomes interesting.
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I found it interesting that we were reportedly interested in Fred Van Vleet this offseason. Culturally Ricky is as good of a fit as there is. If you look at our best players the fit is clunky at best.

Ricky is just so hard to peg... he does a lot of things that don't hit the box score, but some of the measurable things are really rough. I'm not giving up but I'm really skeptical about the idea of a long term commitment there.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think at the 10-12 game mark it is appropriate to make a change to the starting lineup if things are still trending the way they currently are.
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Why wait? Ricky would be professional about being demoted to 2nd string and with Dante's trajectory we need to jump on it for his sake, and ours. Dante could be our long-term future, Ricky won't be. We used a #5 draft pick on Dante, it's time to up the ante. I think we give Ricky one more game and if he sucks we make the change. Minutes wouldn't be much different overall and we could always go back to Ricky if he gets his shot back. But Dante is feeling aggressive right now so let's test it out.
 
str8line said:
Why wait? Ricky would be professional about being demoted to 2nd string and with Dante's trajectory we need to jump on it for his sake, and ours. Dante could be our long-term future, Ricky won't be. We used a #5 draft pick on Dante, it's time to up the ante. I think we give Ricky one more game and if he sucks we make the change. Minutes wouldn't be much different overall and we could always go back to Ricky if he gets his shot back. But Dante is feeling aggressive right now so let's test it out.
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Ricky would be a pro, but in a contract year with all the emotion behind what he's brought here it has to be blatantly obvious and given more than enough time or you lose him mentally. He's in a contract year and while he is not the most worldly dude he still cares. Guy could go from making 15M to much less... part of it is feeling properly respected.

It is easy for us to say pull a guy in and out, but these decisions are tough. Dante hasn't so thoroughly outplayed him that it is obvious... Ricky has just been way worse than what is expected. I want a guy to take the job... not a guy just losing the job. Give it 10-12 games imo... if this 4 game stretch had happened in games 41-45 we likely just say it's a small slump. since it is beginning of the year it is exaggerated.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ricky would be a pro, but in a contract year with all the emotion behind what he's brought here it has to be blatantly obvious and given more than enough time or you lose him mentally. He's in a contract year and while he is not the most worldly dude he still cares. Guy could go from making 15M to much less... part of it is feeling properly respected.

It is easy for us to say pull a guy in and out, but these decisions are tough. Dante hasn't so thoroughly outplayed him that it is obvious... Ricky has just been way worse than what is expected. I want a guy to take the job... not a guy just losing the job. Give it 10-12 games imo... if this 4 game stretch had happened in games 41-45 we likely just say it's a small slump. since it is beginning of the year it is exaggerated.
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Yeah, everything you said makes sense. But Ricky's really been atrocious. And if he gets a little better it becomes harder to make the change. This might be the chance to see what Dante can do without causing an upheaval. Dante seems to live or die by his confidence and giving him this bump as a sign of support is a necessity at some point. His defense is already top notch so in that respect he's earned it.
 
str8line said:
Yeah, everything you said makes sense. But Ricky's really been atrocious. And if he gets a little better it becomes harder to make the change. This might be the chance to see what Dante can do without causing an upheaval. Dante seems to live or die by his confidence and giving him this bump as a sign of support is a necessity at some point. His defense is already top notch so in that respect he's earned it.
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I don't care who starts... I just want good PG play... so I'm hoping Ricky gets better so that we don't need to make a change. If Dante is still playing well and Ricky is playing well then that is ideal. Dante can grab a few minutes away from Royce or even DM/Ingles to keep them fresh.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Let’s cut the bull ****. Quin isn’t fine with Rubio shooting 20% on the year. Quin is showing faith in him in the hope that that faith gives him enough confidence to break through his dark period/slump.

It’s a long term psychological strategy, not a short-term basketball move. The math is clean, simple, and ****ing loud about how Rubio has been playing.
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Yup. Rubio will be fine. Even if it takes him half a season to get there. What matters is if he's clicking and healthy going into the playoffs. Last season he was clicking but not healthy.
 
LifeOnaPlate said:
Yup. Rubio will be fine. Even if it takes him half a season to get there. What matters is if he's clicking and healthy going into the playoffs. Last season he was clicking but not healthy.
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He just runs so cold sometimes and it makes me wonder if long-term we should go a different way at the position. If he's at his current percentages by game 15 we need to worry about the long-term implications of holding back a guy like Exum (assuming he is healthy and playing solidly still).
 
str8line said:
Yeah, everything you said makes sense. But Ricky's really been atrocious. And if he gets a little better it becomes harder to make the change. This might be the chance to see what Dante can do without causing an upheaval. Dante seems to live or die by his confidence and giving him this bump as a sign of support is a necessity at some point. His defense is already top notch so in that respect he's earned it.
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You're kidding yourself if you think starting Exum over Rubio now would not cause an upheaval. Do you honestly think DM would be okay with that?

And when you say that if Rubio "gets a little better it becomes harder to make the change," what you really mean is that -- in your mind -- it's Exum before the team.

I'm all for giving Exum 3 or 4 more minutes of Rubio's court time, but Rubio is owed the opportunity to work out of his current slump.
 
Ellipse said:
You're kidding yourself if you think starting Exum over Rubio now would not cause an upheaval. Do you honestly think DM would be okay with that?

And when you say that if Rubio "gets a little better it becomes harder to make the change," what you really mean is that -- in your mind -- it's Exum before the team.

I'm all for giving Exum 3 or 4 more minutes of Rubio's court time, but Rubio is owed the opportunity to work out of his current slump.
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Maybe we should ask Yamers what he thinks?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He just runs so cold sometimes and it makes me wonder if long-term we should go a different way at the position. If he's at his current percentages by game 15 we need to worry about the long-term implications of holding back a guy like Exum (assuming he is healthy and playing solidly still).
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Let's also remember that the mean exists for a reason. Rubio was great to end the year, but that level of play is the exception that proves the rule. Furthermore, he's in a contract year, so this isn't just an academic question. If he reverts back to his mean - even if he has spurts of good play - there is no way in hell I'm committing eight-figures per year to that.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Let's also remember that the mean exists for a reason. Rubio was great to end the year, but that level of play is the exception that proves the rule. Furthermore, he's in a contract year, so this isn't just an academic question. If he reverts back to his mean - even if he has spurts of good play - there is no way in hell I'm committing eight-figures per year to that.
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I just wonder if all the work-arounds are worth the other stuff he provides. He will get better than his first 4 games obviously. The same questions apply to Favs... its really the same Ricky, Favs, Rudy combo question. Like maybe it clicks in when DM and Ricky are running hot, but what does it look like with a consistent shooter at one or both of those spots.

If you were to list out the attributes of the ideal backcourt mate to play with DM and Rudy I don't think Ricky checks a lot of boxes, so maybe you run with a lesser player that ticks more of the boxes and you get a better overall product. I also wonder if DL will have the strength to cut ties with one or both of Ricky and Favs if it isn't working... it'd be tough to risk the culture. That's the biggest question/conundrum this season imo. Would be great if Favs was banging threes or if Ricky was doing his Rick Curry routine. We have the assets and space to really address this and design intelligently and with purpose.
 
Rubio would be an excellent guy to run our 2nd unit. I don't believe he is a starter on a title contender. Maybe if we replaced Favors with a great stretch 4. Maybe. But Rubio as our 2nd unit catalyst and strong lockerroom presence would provide us amazing depth.

We have to find out if Exum is our franchise PG or just a key part of the 2nd unit with Rubio. That doesnt mean Exum starts now, but we also cant drag our feet should Rubio continue to struggle.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
I just wonder if all the work-arounds are worth the other stuff he provides. He will get better than his first 4 games obviously. The same questions apply to Favs... its really the same Ricky, Favs, Rudy combo question. Like maybe it clicks in when DM and Ricky are running hot, but what does it look like with a consistent shooter at one or both of those spots.

If you were to list out the attributes of the ideal backcourt mate to play with DM and Rudy I don't think Ricky checks a lot of boxes, so maybe you run with a lesser player that ticks more of the boxes and you get a better overall product. I also wonder if DL will have the strength to cut ties with one or both of Ricky and Favs if it isn't working... it'd be tough to risk the culture. That's the biggest question/conundrum this season imo. Would be great if Favs was banging threes or if Ricky was doing his Rick Curry routine. We have the assets and space to really address this and design intelligently and with purpose.
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Exum is great at lobs, especially off the pick and roll.
 
Jingled said:
AB and Allen each played about 5 minutes tonight, that's not enough time to find any kind of a rhythm. I think Quin is going to have to choose one or the other to be in the rotation and give them solid minutes. Continuing to split their minutes isn't going to work.
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I think they both need to play. Problem is they are pretty much redundant, but I would give the early edge to Allen. I think we have seen what AB is, and it isn't really going to change much. But Allen seems to have a good head on his shoulders, once he settles in he could be a very valuable piece. His shooting alone will earn him time, but if he can bring some defensive intensity, combined with the fact that he already has a much higher BBall IQ than Burks, he could be a solid rotation guy at 15 per.
 
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