***jazzfanz official us mass shootings thread***

[Stoked]

i read it as "why would you support something like this"
my bad.

i dont know if i would support it.

Arrested for saying things? No. Opening an investigation based on credible reports from multiple witnesses? yes.

 

[LogGrad98]

What qualifies as a mass shooting? Was the one in Portland a mass shooting with only one person and the shooter dead?

 

[fishonjazz]

Arrested for saying things? No. Opening an investigation based on credible reports from multiple witnesses? yes.

good call

 

[8]

https://reason.com/blog/2014/06/11/are-school-homicides-becoming-the-norm

https://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_v...ates#mediaviewer/File:Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg

 

[Hantlers]

Clearly the guns are the problem, and not the people. If we just get rid of the guns, everything will be hunky-dory.

As much as I hate to say it, Beanclown is right…we have a massive problem with mental health.

People feel like they have a problem, they go to a doctor, and they get drugs.

Too excitable? Better get drugs. Can't talk to people? Better get drugs. You're sad? Better get drugs.

At some point, people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions, and quit looking to other people to fix it. We don't have a gun problem, we have a drug problem.

 

[fishonjazz]

Clearly the guns are the problem, and not the people. If we just get rid of the guns, everything will be hunky-dory.

As much as I hate to say it, Beanclown is right…we have a massive problem with mental health.

People feel like they have a problem, they go to a doctor, and they get drugs.

Too excitable? Better get drugs. Can't talk to people? Better get drugs. You're sad? Better get drugs.

At some point, people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions, and quit looking to other people to fix it. We don't have a gun problem, we have a drug problem.

i would definately rather have someone with mental health issue come at me sans gun than with gun

 

[Hantlers]

i would definately rather have someone with mental health issue come at me sans gun than with gun

So then the answer is to get rid of guns?

What about those of us that use them for food? For our lifestyles? Is that to be taken away because of people who can't handle it?

Well in that case, we better outlaw alcohol, and a myriad of other things that people can abuse negatively.

The problem is not the device, it is the person.

 

[fishonjazz]

So then the answer is to get rid of guns?

What about those of us that use them for food? For our lifestyles? Is that to be taken away because of people who can't handle it?

Well in that case, we better outlaw alcohol, and a myriad of other things that people can abuse negatively.

The problem is not the device, it is the person.

use em for food? go to a grocery store.

guns are made for killing.

is there anything else out there that half of americans own that is made specifically for killing?

 

[Hantlers]

use em for food? go to a grocery store.

guns are made for killing.

is there anything else out there that half of americans own that is made specifically for killing?

I'm assuming you aren't a hunter…hunting enables people to control animal populations (which is very important for disease reasons), eat healthy food, and pay a heck of a lot less for it.

I'm also assuming you don't agree with the 2nd amendment, and have no problem with getting rid of it.

To put it lightly, I disagree. A lot.

 

[Hantlers]

If they're going to enact gun ownership laws, they're going to have to do it based on location, similar to what they already do.

For example, people in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas shouldn't have the same restrictions that California, NY, Illinois and other states with large metropolitan areas have. Just doesn't make sense. If I live in the city, do I need a semi-automatic rifle? Probably not…but I disagree with the idea of taking that right away from people.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm assuming you aren't a hunter…hunting enables people to control animal populations (which is very important for disease reasons), eat healthy food, and pay a heck of a lot less for it.

I'm also assuming you don't agree with the 2nd amendment, and have no problem with getting rid of it.

To put it lightly, I disagree. A lot.

i have hunted sage grouse, blue grouse, chuckers, pheasunt, duck, geese, deer, rabbits, dove, turkey, and prongnorn antelope. (pheasants are my favorite)

take guns away and i aint gonna starve doe

 

[fishonjazz]

i have hunted sage grouse, blue grouse, chuckers, pheasunt, duck, geese, deer, rabbits, dove, turkey, and prongnorn antelope. (pheasants are my favorite)

take guns away and i gonna starve doe

also..... how many of these shootings are carried out with a 30.06? 12 gauge? .22?

i doubt that guns used primarily for hunting are being used in most murders

 

[Hantlers]

also..... how many of these shootings are carried out with a 30.06? 12 gauge? .22?

i doubt that guns used primarily for hunting are being used in most murders

Appears to be .223 (coyotes, rock chucks, prairie dogs, wolves, etc) and handguns, which I use as a backup to bear spray when I'm out in the mountains.

Anyways, the problem is that if you take these away, people will start using the calibers you have listed above. By then, we have a precedence for taking away commonly used calibers, and eventually we'll be left with no guns. It's a slippery slope, and I don't think we should take it. We're focusing too much of the blame on the device instead of the person, because nobody wants to say that we have a huge mental health issue in this country.

 

[fishonjazz]

Appears to be .223 (coyotes, rock chucks, prairie dogs, wolves, etc) and handguns, which I use as a backup to bear spray when I'm out in the mountains.

i bought some bear spray this year...... i read it s more effective against bear than a gun. (plus i dont want to kill a bear) i keep it in my fanny pack lol.

i dont know what the answer is with the gun issue but i do think something should be done and there is no way to test every person for mental health issue and then keep those people from guns.
also not every shooter would show signs of mental health issues..... some would be perfectly fine and then snap.

 

[Hantlers]

i bought some bear spray this year...... i read it s more effective against bear than a gun. (plus i dont want to kill a bear) i keep it in my fanny pack lol.

Oh bear spray is definitely more effective…I just like to have both on me. Plus, guns are fun.

I don't care which one you have though, if you got a momma grizzly bear mad at you, she's just gonna have **** that smells like pepper for a couple days, cause ain't nothing stopping her.

 

[fishonjazz]

Oh bear spray is definitely more effective…I just like to have both on me. Plus, guns are fun.

I don't care which one you have though, if you got a momma grizzly bear mad at you, she's just gonna have **** that smells like pepper for a couple days, cause ain't nothing stopping her.

do you think bear mace would work on a moose if it charged?

 

[VINYLONE]

It's too bad nothing can be done.

https://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/

What is it that you want to do? Solve violence committed by man?

Have everyone who is a part of the tea party, or supports the tea party, shipped to a distant, underpopulated country.

We just have to give them a ton of guns and some American flag suit pins and they should be happy.

The idea that only "tea party supporters" promote or hold gun rights is not only incredibly short sighted but says more about you and the argument you're putting forth than anything. As cliche as thinking "outside the box" is not many people do it.

I have no clue. What I do know is this is a problem with no short term solution. It may even take a generation to fix at this point. I suggest the US takes an approach it has yet to try long term. Reducing the access to guns, in a serious and calculated way.

I would use the data in front of us to make an informed decision and trust federal, state, and local governments to enact new laws based off this data. You can keep punching yourself in the dick over and over and expect different results, but all your going to get is a wailed on dick. In my opinion, gun nuts have had their way for long enough. It's time for responsible gun advocates, that support stricter access to guns, to get their fair shake. I'm not suggesting we make guns illegal, but lets make it hard as **** to get one.

For example, the Assault Weapons Ban was instituted for 10 years and quickly repealed. In those ten years gun violence involving assault weapons was reduced. But the sample size was so small due to the short window that the data isn't really conclusive. Stuff like this is worth a try, IMO. But it requires a long term commitment and buy in every level.

Reducing access to guns only affects law abiding citizens. That has always been the case especially when someone decides to break the gravest of laws. Once you have decided to murder, no other laws matter. Furthermore, in this restriction of firearms, how would one accomplish this? Guns are forever as most of us enthusiasts know. What this means is that there are millions and millions of unaccounted firearms out there and a lot of them are in the hands of criminals. How do you profess to get these guns back?

Painting those that support gun rights as nuts makes you look irrational.

Some things we can try/consider, in my opinion:

Tie mental health records to background checks
Stop sending guns over the border in to less then responsible hands
Secure the border (north south gun flow - illegal gun trade)
Create a national level of requirement for a CC that includes shooting the weapon you are being licensed for
Confiscate and destroy any weapons owned by a person who is convicted of a crime
Harsher penalties and increased enforcement of black market weapons and destruction of captured weapons
Harsher penalties for those that carelessly guard their weapons that get used in a crime

Also not sure how to address it but it seems that certain groups tend to lead to more violence. Such as certain white hate groups. Perhaps increased monitoring of them? ban them (would only push them further under ground imo)?

I am pro gun but there is clearly a problem here and there has to be things we can do to decrease the black market trade, restrict access to those that should not have the weapons in the first place and increase the responsibility of those that do have access to such weapons.

Mental health checks is a slippery slope. I mean, what's the bar that gets set that allows one to have or not have a firearm? If you were depressed a few years ago does that mean you're not allowed to have a firearm? Think about this.

The fast and furious fiasco was just that...a fiasco. Holder should have been given the boot long ago. That said, I have no idea how this ties in to issues here domestically especially in main street America.

Secure the border? Laughable. You can't even stop folks from getting into this country and NOW we're going to stop firearms? Besides, most firearms are made here in the States. Furthermore, prisons can't even stop drugs from getting into their own facilities and you're telling me you're going to be able to stop guns from coming in? Please.

There are already enough laws on the books regarding OC and CC and there are myriad of daily DGU (defensive gun use) examples in the media. You just need to know where to look. Ill be happy to show people of daily examples.

Im definitely for violent criminals not having weapons. Especially once they've left the prison system. But again, how is this enforced? It reminds me of this article from California. https://healthland.time.com/2013/09...-the-mentally-ill-prevent-more-violent-crime/ It's like looking for a needle in a haystack really.

I have no issues with harsher penalties for straw purchases and black market weapons but again if you catch the dealers, you're only catching the dealers. And for those who dont report their guns being stolen and subsequently have them used in a crime, well, I have no issues with them getting some sort of penalty.

https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/norway-shooter-anders-breivik-smiles-21-year-prison/story?id=17072142

This particular case, as well as the Boston marathon implosion and the more recent knife attacks in China remind me that when man wants to kill, he will find a way to kill regardless of instrument.

 

[VINYLONE]

What qualifies as a mass shooting?

This is a great question and one that needs to be answered in order to have an intellectually honest conversation.

 

[VINYLONE]

At some point, people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions, and quit looking to other people to fix it. We don't have a gun problem, we have a drug problem.

I think the use of psychotropic drugs in many of these mass shooting cases play a huge role. And if we go off the probable side effects that are listed for many of these drugs, the percentages in comparison to per capita make sense.

 

[VINYLONE]

i would definately rather have someone with mental health issue come at me sans gun than with gun

I would rather have no one come at me at all regardless of what they're carrying. That said, an overly aggressive, hallucinating, suicidal individual with a firearm is never a good thing.