John Oliver facing 15 years in prison for attempting to bribe Supreme Court Justice

[fishonjazz]

New York has changed the game. Now not even a trial is necessary. Trump was found guilty summarily. The prosecutor said they found forms where Trump had claimed to be richer than he was and the judge declared him guilty without a trial. It wasn't even a crime being alleged but was instead a civil violation which let them ignore many of the pesky due process requirements. Only after Trump was found guilty were Trump and his lawyers allowed any defense in court as part of the sentencing process.

The mechanism New York just used to seize half a billion dollars didn't require a crime, a victim, or a jury, and there was nothing in the process they just used that would in any way limit its use to Trump. New York has just shown that it can and will take anything they want from anyone they want.

See, trump owns you.

There was a trial. This will probably shock you but not all trials have a jury.
There was a crime. Lying about how much his assets were worth when applying for a loan. Commiting fraud is a crime.

I agree though that nothing would limit this type of prosecution to trump. Others who also lie and cheat (commit fraud) to get favorable loan terms can also be prosecuted in a court of law. Just like before this trial occurred.

This isn't unprecedented like you think it is. Far far from it. Fraud has been illegal for a long long time. People have been convicted of fraud many many times. Trials happen without the involvement of juries often.

You are simply regurgitating trumps lies of being a poor victim.



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[Al-O-Meter]

This will probably shock you but not all trials have a jury.
There was a crime.

In ALL criminal cases the defendant has the constitutional right to have a jury of their peers at trial. This wasn't a crime. It was a civil violation. The State of New York alleged that Trump violated a civil statute and declared him guilty summarily.

 

[fishonjazz]

I have been to court 4 times in my life. I never had a jury involved. A judge sentenced me each time. There was no victim in 3 of my crimes (when I stole a candy bar is the only time there could have been a possible victim).

Still committed the crimes and faced the punishment and penalties for all 4 of them though.

Maybe the justice system is weaponized against me I guess.

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[fishonjazz]

In ALL criminal cases the defendant has the constitutional right to have a jury of their peers at trial. This wasn't a crime. It was a civil violation. The State of New York alleged that Trump violated a civil statute and declared him guilty summarily.

Well there ya go. Trump was treated like any other civilian being tried for committing fraud in a civil case.
Thanks for that.

I wonder if his trump university case was a civil case involving fraud. I also wonder if his trump foundation (stealing from a charity) case was a civil case involving fraud.

Those things happened back when he was a democrat. Maybe the justice system was weaponized against democrats back then?

Trump seems to have a history of going to court for fraud.

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[Al-O-Meter]

Well there ya go. Trump was treated like any other civilian being tried for committing fraud in a civil case.
Thanks for that.

In that we find agreement which is why I find it so worrisome. Any civilian can now be expected to be treated as Trump was. Did you claim the fish you caught years ago was 12" when there is a photo showing it to only have been 10"? We found you guilty of fraud. Pay $500,000 dollar in the next 30 days. If you don't pay within 30 days then we'll take your house. If you do come up with the $500k for your fraud within 30 days then you can appeal the ruling. Next!

No one has ever, in the history of our nation, been done like Trump was just done. Welcome to New York and the new normal.

 

[fishonjazz]

In that we find agreement which is why I find it so worrisome. Any civilian can now be expected to be treated as Trump was. Did you claim the fish you caught years ago was 12" when there is a photo showing it to only have been 10"? We found you guilty of fraud. Pay $500,000 dollar in the next 30 days. If you don't pay within 30 days then we'll take your house. If you do come up with the $500k for your fraud within 30 days then you can appeal the ruling. Next!

No one has ever, in the history of our nation, been done like Trump was just done. Welcome to New York and the new normal.

Bring it. Trump could say his house is way bigger and more expensive than it is and wouldn't have any problem (the equivalent of me saying I caught a bigger fish than I really did). Once he puts the lies down on loan applications that's when the problems start. The fact that you think trump is the first person to go to court for fraud is kind of funny and definitely shows you are drinking the koolaid he is serving up.

So your beef is that trump isn't allowed to commit fraud.

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[Al-O-Meter]

So your beef is that trump isn't allowed to commit fraud.

My beef is that for half a billion dollars there better be a jury and due process. My objection is the same objection I have to capitol punishment. I do not think the state should unilaterally have that much power. Twelve citizens in a jury isn't much of a bulwark but it is something, and you should absolutely be allowed to defend yourself, to tell your side of the story, before being declared guilty with effectively your entire life on the line.

 

[fishonjazz]

If I were in a fishing competition and I put down on paper that my fish was much bigger than it really was in an effort to commit fraud and was then prosecuted for that then I would deserve it

Don't commit fraud folks.

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[fishonjazz]

My beef is that for half a billion dollars there better be a jury and due process. My objection is the same objection I have to capitol punishment. I do not think the state should unilaterally have that much power. Twelve citizens in a jury isn't much of a bulwark but it is something, and you should absolutely be allowed to defend yourself, to tell your side of the story, before being declared guilty with effectively your entire life on the line.

So if he had a jury convict him then you would have no beef lol.

Like in his other current cases that do and will involve a jury you haven't been saying that they are unfair and a weaponization of the justice system?

Lol you silly goose. You simply believe that trump should have immunity to do whatever he wants with no accountability. You are way too obvious.

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[infection]

You should watch some episodes of judge Judy. There is no jury involved with those trials and many of them involve the defendant being on trial for fraud.

I see cases on judge Judy where people are being tried in civil court for fraud all the time.

Judge Judy is not court. It is all parties agreeing to put a dispute before an arbitrator that, with cameras and a television set, is meant to look like court, but has no authority outside of arbitration.

 

[fishonjazz]

Judge Judy is not court. It is all parties agreeing to put a dispute before an arbitrator that, with cameras and a television set, is meant to look like court, but has no authority outside of arbitration.

Now do the trump university and trump foundation trials.


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[infection]

Now do the trump university and trump foundation trials.


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I’m not sure what you think I’m saying.

 

[fishonjazz]

I mean you can easily Google something like "prominent fraud causes in civil court" and see tons of examples.


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[fishonjazz]

I’m not sure what you think I’m saying.

This discussion is about trump and his fraud case that recently finished up and whether it's unprecedented for a judge to hand out a sentence in civil court for fraud.

I don't exactly know what you are saying about that either. I was trying to find out.

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[infection]

I don't exactly know what you are saying about that either. I was trying to find out.

That TV court is arbitration and not court. It’s shaped society’s understanding of court and the legal system by what they’ve been exposed to in examples of things that originate from watching arbitration but it is not the court of law.

That’s the only thing I’m saying.

 

[fishonjazz]

That TV court is arbitration and not court. It’s shaped society’s understanding of court and the legal system by what they’ve been exposed to in examples of things that originate from watching arbitration but it is not the court of law.

That’s the only thing I’m saying.

Oh ok. Thanks. Talk to you later

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[fishonjazz]

Oh and I think we all know that 30 days from now trump won't have paid the money, he will still have his properties, he will still be the Republican nominee for president (crazy to even type that out) and he will still be rich.

Cry me a river

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[One Brow]

New York has changed the game. Now not even a trial is necessary. Trump was found guilty summarily.

Summary judgements are common in civil cases. If you want to make a case that Engoron's judgement was incorrect, then make that case. Stop your pitiful whining.

 

[One Brow]

The State of New York alleged that Trump violated a civil statute and declared him guilty summarily.

Judge Engoron declared him guilty, not the State of New York.

Did you claim the fish you caught years ago was 12" when there is a photo showing it to only have been 10"?

Also, did you use that fish to borrow hundreds of millions of dollars?

 

[Sardines]

In ALL criminal cases the defendant has the constitutional right to have a jury of their peers at trial. This wasn't a crime. It was a civil violation. The State of New York alleged that Trump violated a civil statute and declared him guilty summarily.

"The court shall grant summary judgment if the movant shows that there is no genuine dispute as to any material fact and the movant is entitled to judgment as a matter of law. The court should state on the record the reasons for granting or denying the motion."

They didn't do a new or unheard of thing. Trump will appeal. Justice is being done the way it has always been done in the U.S..