Jussie Smollet

[Hotdog]

Except, that's not what you said.

If you want to stimulate an economy, you give money to people who will spend it, not save it.

The leftist idea to just have government tax is no different than the idea of a company taxing your contributions and labor.

Except the difference is the government doesn't provide a variety of ideas and are most likely to screw it up because of the lack of different ideas.

The incentive to win is important in the development of great ideas.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

I don't. The USSC has a particular focus. I think you are cherry picking, and likely trolling a little as well.

??? I gave an example of something I hear ad nauseum that isn't true. Odd to consider that cherrypicking somehow. If you feel there is more to it than what I hear being reported then feel free to ad something substantive. I thought about the difference between the Fed and state prosecutions before you brought it up but dont know how I'd go about looking into it. You can point me in the right direction since you are insinuating large discrepencies exist in state prosecutions?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

One thing that boggles my mind is our judicial system and the amount of time people serve due to their crimes/charges and how many people support that ****. "Throw the book at them!"

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for justice, but putting people behind bars for years and years doesn't benefit society. I should say, I'm talking about non-violent, and victimless crimes (for the most part.)

Smollett being charged with in the teens amount of felonies was a bit too much for me.

I think people would be surprised at how lenient our system is on non-violent, non-drug offenses. This whole thing got started in 1995 or 1996 when somebody clever coined the term prison industrial complex to sell his books. Now we live under this untrue myth that we are packing prisons full to fill private pockets. It's simply not true, but repeat a lie enough and...

 

[Eminence]

Well, drug offenses are kind of the big one. So that makes sense.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Another myth: crack cocaine laws are racist. The Black Caucus pushed the crack cocaine sentencing laws through and it's majority black communities still pushing to have drug dealers locked up. Get rid of the drug dealers get rid of the drugs.

 

[One Brow]

No you dont.

Economic studies indicate that you do, to my understanding.

Me and you cant even agree on simple things. How in the world are you going to get 1000's of people just to magically work together and get things done. Its a fantasy bro.

I don't aim to agree with you.

When there is money that wants to be spent, someone will find a way to help people spend it. I believe in capitalism, not government give-a-ways to the wealthy. Why do you love socialism so much?

 

[One Brow]

??? I gave an example of something I hear ad nauseum that isn't true. Odd to consider that cherrypicking somehow.

You have heard ad nauseum that federal sentencing guidelines for black defendants are applied in a racist fashion? Because your original statement was "... you would think racism is at an all time high. The discrepancy in prison sentencings for example." To me, that reads as though you picked specifically federal sentencing guidelines as a good example of the state of racism in the country.

I found it to be a suspiciously specific. It's been only 9 years since the publication of The New Jim Crow, and there have been improvements since then, but I don't think you could say that the overall racism has been effectively removed.

If you feel there is more to it than what I hear being reported then feel free to ad something substantive. I thought about the difference between the Fed and state prosecutions before you brought it up but dont know how I'd go about looking into it. You can point me in the right direction since you are insinuating large discrepencies exist in state prosecutions?

There is so much to choose from. Someone at the Washington Post has collected dozens of studies, including a few contrarian studies that dispute the effects of race on criminal justice outcomes.

 

[One Brow]

Now we live under this untrue myth that we are packing prisons full to fill private pockets.

You do acknowledge that many private prison contracts come with minimum occupancy requirements?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

You do acknowledge that many private prison contracts come with minimum occupancy requirements?

Let me be clear that I'm in favor of abolishing private prisons, and generally against public-private partnerships. Contracting out imprisonment is as bad as it gets. WTS, I don't think we have some moral hazard going on. California might be a problem but private is something like 10% IIRC so it's not like minimum guarantees are anything more than an inmate transfer.

 

[NAOS]

Let me be clear that I'm in favor of abolishing private prisons, and generally against public-private partnerships. Contracting out imprisonment is as bad as it gets. WTS, I don't think we have some moral hazard going on. California might be a problem but private is something like 10% IIRC so it's not like minimum guarantees are anything more than an inmate transfer.

I don't want to run back through to find the right place and way to interject.... and I should just close the tab instead of typing this, but whatever. Here goes:

Minimum sentencing guidelines have pretty much proven themselves to be morally hazardous, IMO.
The entire war on drugs has reeked of moral hazard, IMO.
The staggering number of mentally ill people who are institutionalized in prisons is absolutely morally hazardous.
And, yeah, the outsourcing of prisons is a shockingly bad idea, through-and-through.

 

[Stoked]

You have to keep people out of jail for that.

Which cycles is back to education and programs to keeps kids off the streets. Arts, sports, social, science, medical. Hell damn near anything works for me.

Like the language immersion courses it’ll take a several decades to start rolling by Itself. When the first decade or two of those students are raising their own families and both parents are there.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

but I don't think you could say that the overall racism has been effectively removed.

Saying it is not at an all time high is not saying it's been effectively removed. I say things are getting better, you say "things are getting better for me [and my biracial decendents]", to paraphrase. I don't get that sentiment from the media. That's subjective and could be false to you.

There is so much to choose from. Someone at the Washington Post has collected dozens of studies, including a few contrarian studies that dispute the effects of race on criminal justice outcomes.

I'm leery of quoting many of the studies I've sought out or papers discussing multiple studies for the obvious reason. You'll notice I didnt cherry pick the ones that prove a point that racial disparity actually goes against white people. I chose to refer to USSC because they seem the most straightforward and comprehensive, and point to the best area to study discrepancy (when judges go above or below guidelines).

And yes, all I've seen in media is regarding federal sentencing. BTW, sentencing guidelines were put in place in 1984 so going back further than 9 years might be better if you are interested in a trendline.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Which cycles is back to education and programs to keeps kids off the streets. Arts, sports, social, science, medical. Hell damn near anything works for me.

Like the language immersion courses it’ll take a several decades to start rolling by Itself. When the first decade or two of those students are raising their own families and both parents are there.

You have to get into the pyramid of needs and luxuries to understand why those haven't been long term solutions. We try them as we should but they arent kicking poverty in the ***. Education is a luxury and comes higher up the pyramid. To get to where that brings results we need to secure the foundational needs first and that is done with jobs, jobs, jobs. The other way would be through a draconian police state that nobody would stand for.

I'll see if I can find some of my old links for some pretty good reading about this. It's been awhile for me.

 

[JazzGal]

Another myth: crack cocaine laws are racist. The Black Caucus pushed the crack cocaine sentencing laws through and it's majority black communities still pushing to have drug dealers locked up. Get rid of the drug dealers get rid of the drugs.

What would get rid of drugs is people not buying drugs, and that is the only way the drug crisis will be effectively handled. As long as we have an insatiable appetite for drugs in this country, legal and illegal, there will be a way for obtaining them. We need to start at the beginning and deal with drug addiction and the underlying issues of why people take drugs. Locking addicts up has not been effective in reducing drug consumption.

 

[Archie Moses]

I think people would be surprised at how lenient our system is on non-violent, non-drug offenses. This whole thing got started in 1995 or 1996 when somebody clever coined the term prison industrial complex to sell his books. Now we live under this untrue myth that we are packing prisons full to fill private pockets. It's simply not true, but repeat a lie enough and...

I don't know, man. I have no ide what book you're talking about. I base my claims off of reading local and national new sources on a daily basis. Some of the sentences are crazy when you think about the crime and how short life really is.

 

[One Brow]

Another myth: crack cocaine laws are racist. The Black Caucus pushed the crack cocaine sentencing laws through and it's majority black communities still pushing to have drug dealers locked up. Get rid of the drug dealers get rid of the drugs.

You do realize this is compatible with the disparate sentencing laws being racist?

 

[Stoked]

You do realize this is compatible with the disparate sentencing laws being racist?

It’s far more in line with economic status than it is “race”.

 

[One Brow]

It’s far more in line with economic status than it is “race”.

Are there similar sentencing disparities in the types of drugs that are more often seen in poor, rural populations versus similar drugs in wealthy populations (say, crystal meth versus pill forms of amphetamines)?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

You do realize this is compatible with the disparate sentencing laws being racist?

No, please explain. I think I've rattled the cage too much lately so I'll duck out and listen for a bit.

 

[One Brow]

No, please explain. I think I've rattled the cage too much lately so I'll duck out and listen for a bit.

Racism is the disparate application of institutional power based on skin color, and support (tacit or implicit) of these institutions. Blacks who use institutional power to make life worse for black people are still being racist.