What's new
By:

Kanter and Nike Hoop Summit History

B

Borat

Well-Known Member
The only reason Kanter was considered a top HS recruit and the only reason he is being considered for top 3 selection is that great Summit game a year ago. Before that he was not considered anywhere near the top guy coming out of HS, and after that he did not play a competitive game and lost development time due to inability to not only play, but even practice with the team this year. To get a historical perspective of how top scorers from the World's team do in NBA, I looked at previous Summits starting at 1995. I am going to list top scorers from Worlds team, who got at least 15 points with their scores in parenthesis.

Here they are: Zemljic(22), Bogojevic(22), Palladino(16), I. Rakocevic (17), J. Victoriano (16), D. Nowitzki (33), M. Neilsen (23), V. Illijevski (19), Fotsis (15), T. Parker (20), O. Oyediji (19), L.Bogdanovic (20), Martynas Pocius (20), Sakota (15), M Tepic (16), Mouhamed Saer Sene (15), Batum (23), Motiejunas(21), Macvan (23), Enes Kanter (34).

Now, granted only Dirk and Kanter crossed 30, but if you look at this list in general, there are many guys who had terrific games at the Summit, but weren't even good enough to make it as a third stringer in NBA. Out of this entire list, only Dirk and Parker are starting caliber players. Batum is a good back-up, and others don't even belong in NBA. And these are top world team guys we are talking about here. Now, we have Kanter, whose only claim to fame was that he did great in that game. Even from US team, if you look, there are few (if any) guys who did great in that game who are actually deserving of top 3 pick. Casey Jacobsen put up 31 points, and he is not even NBA player.

The point is, this game historically, especially when you look at world's team, shows very little as far player's potential and worthiness of top selection. And yet that game is the only reason why Kanter is considered as the top pick.
 
He played for Stoneridge Prep. There's some false in the OP, but I'll stay out of it because I'm already labeled a homer.
 
PKM said:
He played for Stoneridge Prep. There's some false in the OP, but I'll stay out of it because I'm already labeled a homer.
Click to expand...

He did play for stoneridge, and both nbadraft.net and drafexpress.com claim performance was not consistent or overwhelming. He did not exactly win HS player of the year awards, like Knight did. He did great at a Hoop Summit game, that was his great accomplishment, and as I just showed, nearly everyone who did well in that game from world's team not only didn't become worthy of top 3 pick, but weren't even good enough to be to make it to NBA. Even from US team we got 30+ point scorer who wasn't good enough for NBA. To spend 3d pick on a guy whose only great accomplishment was this game from the world's team seems a bit reckless at the very least.
 
I'm not trying to call you a liar, but you are badly misinformed. This was posted by draft express on Halloween of 2008, a year and a half before the hoops summit game.

-Enes Kanter is entering Ricky Rubio territory, seeing a handful of minutes in the Euroleague competition despite being six months away from turning 17 years old. The 1992-born Turkish center saw 10 minutes of playing time today against Alba Berlin, not disappointing his head coach Bogdan Tanjevic by delivering a solid 5 points and 3 rebounds in the process. Kanter saw even more playing time last weekend in the local TBL, getting 21 minutes in which he delivered 8 points and an awesome 12 rebounds against Kepez. We suspect this is NOT the last you’ll be hearing about him.

As far as analyzing European prospects, you can't get much higher than comparing him to Rubio status. This write up clearly shows that kanter has been squarely in the eyes of scouts as a big time NBA prospect. You don't throw rubios name like that around, especially in 2008 if you didn't think you were sitting on something very special.

Whether he turns out great or not, he's been a top prospect going on 3 years now, the hoops summit was not his coming out party.
 
Don't disagree. High risk / High reward. There's certainly validity in playing it a bit more safe. That would be Knight, imo. Jonas' numbers are no better than Kanter's was in euroball and didn't dominate the Hoops Summit. Safe = Knight, imo.
 
I agree that knight is the safest pick from what we've all seen, buti don't think he has the low ceiling some have projected for him. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player. Putting him next to favors could hide a lot of his problems early on while he figures the NBA game out.
 
Borat said:
The point is, this game historically, especially when you look at world's team, shows very little as far player's potential and worthiness of top selection. And yet that game is the only reason why Kanter is considered as the top pick.
Click to expand...

Nice work. You make the point that people shouldn't get overly excited by a performance in this game. But I wouldn't completely disregard it either.
He did score one point more than Nowitzki - which doesn't mean he'll reach that potential, but should at least warrant consideration as a decent pick.
 
PKM said:
High risk / High reward
Click to expand...

This is a very simplistic assessment. Are you going to sell everything you own to buy a lottery ticket? It is also high risk high reward. Why don't we all give up our houses and buy some lotto tickets. High risk / high reward right? Does the risk justify the reward here is the question, isn't it? And I just showed overwhelming likelihood of players who do well in that game from world's team not even being good enough to make the roster of NBA team, not to mention be top 3 pick. And out of all world players who did great in that game only 1 turned out to be franchise type player (Dirk). And Dirk had MUCH better accomplishments in Europe than Kanter. The odds are overwhelmingly against you here. Like buying the lottery ticket. High risk/high reward doesn't quite cut it here.
 
BENTLEY said:
Nice work. You make the point that people shouldn't get overly excited by a performance in this game. But I wouldn't completely disregard it either.
He did score one point more than Nowitzki - which doesn't mean he'll reach that potential, but should at least warrant consideration as a decent pick.
Click to expand...

Decent - maybe. Top 3 is more than decent though - that's elite territory.
 
The odds are against ME? Interesting that you have so easily figured out that I'm KOC. Not sure why you feel the need to single me out, but I don't mind the discussion.
 
Borat said:
The only reason Kanter was considered a top HS recruit and the only reason he is being considered for top 3 selection is that great Summit game a year ago. Before that he was not considered anywhere near the top guy coming out of HS, and after that he did not play a competitive game and lost development time due to inability to not only play, but even practice with the team this year. To get a historical perspective of how top scorers from the World's team do in NBA, I looked at previous Summits starting at 1995. I am going to list top scorers from Worlds team, who got at least 15 points with their scores in parenthesis.

Here they are: Zemljic(22), Bogojevic(22), Palladino(16), I. Rakocevic (17), J. Victoriano (16), D. Nowitzki (33), M. Neilsen (23), V. Illijevski (19), Fotsis (15), T. Parker (20), O. Oyediji (19), L.Bogdanovic (20), Martynas Pocius (20), Sakota (15), M Tepic (16), Mouhamed Saer Sene (15), Batum (23), Motiejunas(21), Macvan (23), Enes Kanter (34).

Now, granted only Dirk and Kanter crossed 30, but if you look at this list in general, there are many guys who had terrific games at the Summit, but weren't even good enough to make it as a third stringer in NBA. Out of this entire list, only Dirk and Parker are starting caliber players. Batum is a good back-up, and others don't even belong in NBA. And these are top world team guys we are talking about here. Now, we have Kanter, whose only claim to fame was that he did great in that game. Even from US team, if you look, there are few (if any) guys who did great in that game who are actually deserving of top 3 pick. Casey Jacobsen put up 31 points, and he is not even NBA player.

The point is, this game historically, especially when you look at world's team, shows very little as far player's potential and worthiness of top selection. And yet that game is the only reason why Kanter is considered as the top pick.
Click to expand...


You seem to be overlooking one thing most of the names you listed I pretty sure never had any first round consideration, not sure how many were regarded second round talent, and don't care.

You did list 4 players that were considered first round talent all exept for Mouhamed Saer Sene exceeded expectations of where they were drafted.

Let's give the scouts some credit hear most of these players weren't even considered NBA talent. The four that were considered good NBA talent three are starters two all-stars one bust Dirk will be a first ballot HOF. Of all those players listed Dirk had the best numbers. Is that a coincidence..... Kanter scored one more point than Dirk. So the summit could also prove Kanter to be the best foreign player to be drafted since the great Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not saying he will be as good as Dirk is, but he does have a good shot at being a pretty good player.

What you said earier should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
PKM said:
The odds are against ME? Interesting that you have so easily figured out that I'm KOC. Not sure why you feel the need to single me out, but I don't mind the discussion.
Click to expand...

I used "you" in a general sense. Change "me" to "one", "KOC", whatever makes you comfortable. The point of my response was comparing Kanter selection to buying a lottery ticket. The odds are against you, and "high risk /high reward" is too simplistic to assess this scenario, and doesn't quite cut it.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Who will be available at three that is elite? In my opinion There is not one elite player in this draft, but I do think Kanter has the best shot at being elite
Click to expand...

Based on the good hoops game, which I just showed indicated about 20 times more NBA busts than elite players from the worlds team?
 
PKM said:
Who do you want at 3?
Click to expand...

I don't claim to be draft guru, but it looks to me Irving, Williams, and Knight have a much better risk/reward parameters than that of Kanter. Kanter just seems like a complete crap shot. Like buying a lottery ticket. It's an investment based on complete speculation, with historically nearly non existent return.
 
Borat said:
The only reason Kanter was considered a top HS recruit and the only reason he is being considered for top 3 selection is that great Summit game a year ago. Before that he was not considered anywhere near the top guy coming out of HS, and after that he did not play a competitive game and lost development time due to inability to not only play, but even practice with the team this year. To get a historical perspective of how top scorers from the World's team do in NBA, I looked at previous Summits starting at 1995. I am going to list top scorers from Worlds team, who got at least 15 points with their scores in parenthesis.

Here they are: Zemljic(22), Bogojevic(22), Palladino(16), I. Rakocevic (17), J. Victoriano (16), D. Nowitzki (33), M. Neilsen (23), V. Illijevski (19), Fotsis (15), T. Parker (20), O. Oyediji (19), L.Bogdanovic (20), Martynas Pocius (20), Sakota (15), M Tepic (16), Mouhamed Saer Sene (15), Batum (23), Motiejunas(21), Macvan (23), Enes Kanter (34).

Now, granted only Dirk and Kanter crossed 30, but if you look at this list in general, there are many guys who had terrific games at the Summit, but weren't even good enough to make it as a third stringer in NBA. Out of this entire list, only Dirk and Parker are starting caliber players. Batum is a good back-up, and others don't even belong in NBA. And these are top world team guys we are talking about here. Now, we have Kanter, whose only claim to fame was that he did great in that game. Even from US team, if you look, there are few (if any) guys who did great in that game who are actually deserving of top 3 pick. Casey Jacobsen put up 31 points, and he is not even NBA player.

The point is, this game historically, especially when you look at world's team, shows very little as far player's potential and worthiness of top selection. And yet that game is the only reason why Kanter is considered as the top pick.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the part in red is wrong. They were talking with Calipari and saying how Kanter did practice with the team this year. He was ineligible to play but that does not mean he could not practice.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on Kanter but none of your arguments here are convincing in any way. I see Knight/Williams and even Irving as almost as big of risks as Kanter. At least Kanter has the size for his position and is not seen as a tweener.

I don't really want Knight at 3 I think a better PG can be had next year. Any of DWill, Irving or Kanter and I'll be happy with this pick. There is 3 or 4 pretty good player's in your lists. Were any of the rest even 1st round picks? Take out every player that was not and maybe your list would hold a little weight. Other wise I could start listing 2nd round scrubs to prove that none of the american college players are worth the risk.
 
Fair enough. I'm not a scout, but I like what I saw from UK practices and his street ball against Nazr and Demarcus. No, that doesn't make me think I know anything .. but I really liked what I saw. Thankfully, we're all just fans and someone else has to make the pick and be held accountable.
 
No...... You proved otherwise, like I stated before most of those players listed were considered scrubs the four players that were considered first round talent three of the four ended up being decent to great players. That's a 75% success rate.

Enough said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top