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Kanter and Nike Hoop Summit History

Kanter and Nike Hoop Summit History

Lets compare Kanter in this years combine instead of basing his worth on one game. In the Athletic Testing Composite Ranking
Kanter finished 34th out of 53 participants. That folks is in the lower half. He did not finish in the top 10 in any tested event. His leaping ability is so poor that he will need to use his wide body to create room to get his shot off or be stuffed many times close to the basket. Yes he had a great game at the Nike Hoop Summit, but doesn't his athletic testing cause you some concern? He is tall enough and is in great shape, but that being in great shape did not translate in his athletic testing. If the Jazz draft him to be our center for the future, we are in trouble. Just my opinion.........
 
Trying to be unbiased here. I think it's not 'just' a NHS game. Legit size, legit athleticism, obvious rebounding, near-obvious offense, nice euro numbers, a fantastic NHS game, some favorable reports from his time at UK, and most mocks having him listed very high ..

There are not many players that have that complete, of a totally incomplete, resume. Know what I mean? For as much as we don't know, there IS some evidence to suggest he's as good of a risk as anyone else in THIS draft.
 
jazzrule said:
Kanter and Nike Hoop Summit History

Lets compare Kanter in this years combine instead of basing his worth on one game. In the Athletic Testing Composite Ranking
Kanter finished 34th out of 53 participants. That folks is in the lower half. He did not finish in the top 10 in any tested event. His leaping ability is so poor that he will need to use his wide body to create room to get his shot off or be stuffed many times close to the basket. Yes he had a great game at the Nike Hoop Summit, but doesn't his athletic testing cause you some concern? He is tall enough and is in great shape, but that being in great shape did not translate in his athletic testing. If the Jazz draft him to be our center for the future, we are in trouble. Just my opinion.........
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Hopefully I don't make a fool of myself for not understanding these things, but how do you compare 53 combine players to Kanter in "Athletic Composite Testing" when he is 6'11 260 lbs? I could just as easily say, "Wow, a kid that is 6'11 had better ATHLETIC testing than 19 of 53 NBA combine participants!". How many of his peers were as big as Kanter? I may not understand it, so I'm not being a smart ***.
 
PKM said:
Trying to be unbiased here. I think it's not 'just' a NHS game. Legit size, legit athleticism
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As jazzrule just pointed out, this statement is plain false. His athleticism is not legit. https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Athletic-Testing-Results-3728/ . Being 34 of 53 is not legit athleticism. Being top 5, like Knight, is.

PKM said:
, obvious rebounding, near-obvious offense, nice euro numbers,
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Clarification: he has NO Euro numbers outside of juniors. He did not crack rotation on a senior roster in his below average Euro team in below average Euro League. So we are talking about rebounding and offence on jr level. How can you look at that and claim the guy has legit accomplishments here?


PKM said:
a fantastic NHS game, some favorable reports from his time at UK, and most mocks having him listed very high ..
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Come on now, this is exactly what is called a hunch. He has report he was inconsistent in HS from both DX and nbadraft.net. That's another hunch. These are just not solid accomplishments, don't you see it?

PKM said:
There are not many players that have that complete, of a totally incomplete, resume. Know what I mean? For as much as we don't know, there IS some evidence to suggest he's as good of a risk as anyone else in THIS draft.
Click to expand...

The whole resume is a bunch of huey, really. And I am being unbiased here. There is no resume to speak of. How can you even compare that to someone like Knight, who had MUCH better HS accomplishments, and then played entire season in tough NCAA competition against older guys, leading his team to #3, while Kanter didn't even practice with the team for nearly entire year?
 
PKM said:
Hopefully I don't make a fool of myself for not understanding these things, but how do you compare 53 combine players to Kanter in "Athletic Composite Testing" when he is 6'11 260 lbs?
Click to expand...

I was going to ask a similar thing--how did he compare athletically against the big men, not against all players??
 
PKM said:
Hopefully I don't make a fool of myself for not understanding these things, but how do you compare 53 combine players to Kanter in "Athletic Composite Testing" when he is 6'11 260 lbs? I could just as easily say, "Wow, a kid that is 6'11 had better ATHLETIC testing than 19 of 53 NBA combine participants!". How many of his peers were as big as Kanter? I may not understand it, so I'm not being a smart ***.
Click to expand...

There were athletic tests, and DX came up with overall rankings for all prospects that take everything into consideration. Kanter was 34th: https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Athletic-Testing-Results-3728/
Knight was 5th. And I am not even knocking that as poor, just saying that "legit athleticism" is not the right way to describe his athletic ability. I think he can get by with this ability if he has great skill, but athleticism is certainly not his strength.
 
Borat said:
There were athletic tests, and DX came up with overall rankings for all prospects that take everything into consideration. Kanter was 34th: https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Athletic-Testing-Results-3728/
Knight was 5th. And I am not even knocking that as poor, just saying that "legit athleticism" is not the right way to describe his athletic ability. I think he can get by with this ability if he has great skill, but athleticism is certainly not his strength.
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Apples and oranges. Obviously the athletic tests are going to be dominated by small players. If you want us to take that seriously, you have to sift through the data and show how Kanter did compared to the other big men, PF/C players. I started looking at that, and the first big man I ran across was at #13, JaJuan Johnson. But I didn't want to take the time to look through the whole list.
 
Borat said:
Yeah, but now that we saw the facts about the best thing on Kanter's resume, the NHS game, not translating to NBA success at all, I am just surprised so many people are willing to gamble such an asset as #3 pick away on a hunch, and are "convinced" the guy with no resume is the best choice over people who have high ceiling AND great resume to boot.
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The "high ceiling" and "great resume" players you're advocating are Irving, Williams, and Knight, correct? What Kanter lacks in resume accolades (since you devalue the ones he has) he makes up for in size. Size is a premium and you rarely find it outside of the lottery.

I'm not saying to blindly pick size over a guy who made it to the final 4, but be sure and evaluate every aspect of the prospect before deciding to pass on him (your questioning the value of a good NHS performance is exactly the kind of discriminating research I hope the FO is doing on Kanter, on Biyombo, on every prospect). But I think it's folly to totally disregard it. Passing on Kanter might end up REALLY HURTING. Passing on Knight? -- I don't think so. He's gonna be a good player, sure, but I continue to be perplexed by the inflated love of him. The only way I can make sense of it is the void left by Deron makes some inflate this year's best replacement. Since I wasn't overly impressed with Knight's running of the Kentucky offense in the tourney I prefer to wait for something better or at least something that won't cost a 3rd pick. JMO.
 
Borat said:
...while Kanter didn't even practice with the team for nearly entire year?
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I thought that had been refuted by PKM, and it was just a couple of months he didn't practice with the team. Am I misremembering, or did you miss something?
 
colton said:
Apples and oranges. Obviously the athletic tests are going to be dominated by small players. If you want us to take that seriously, you have to sift through the data and show how Kanter did compared to the other big men, PF/C players. I started looking at that, and the first big man I ran across was at #13, JaJuan Johnson. But I didn't want to take the time to look through the whole list.
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You can sift through data yourself, or you can trust the conclusion DX made on this: "Enes Kanter didn't stand out in any of the metrics covered in the combine, but didn't finish in the bottom-5 of any of them either. He measured taller than expected, which is a plus, even if he's only in the middle-of-the-pack athletically."
 
colton said:
I thought that had been refuted by PKM, and it was just a couple of months he didn't practice with the team. Am I misremembering, or did you miss something?
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We agreed to use term "nearly entire year" vs entire eyar, because he did manage to get some practice time during appeal. And that's exactly the term I used.
 
Borat said:
You can sift through data yourself, or you can trust the conclusion DX made on this: "Enes Kanter didn't stand out in any of the metrics covered in the combine, but didn't finish in the bottom-5 of any of them either. He measured taller than expected, which is a plus, even if he's only in the middle-of-the-pack athletically."
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OK, I sifted through the data a bit more myself. If I counted correctly, of the players 6'10" and taller, I found 4 rated ahead of Kanter and 5 rated below. In other words, Kanter is right in the middle of the pack athletically for PF/C type players. So, DraftExpress is correct in calling him "middle of the pack". But you are very misleading in calling him 34th out of 53.
 
colton said:
I was going to ask a similar thing--how did he compare athletically against the big men, not against all players??
Click to expand...

Good question. I will compare the Athletic Testing Composite Ranking with two other big men we're considering.

Kanter ranked 34th, Chris Singleton ranked 15th and Derrick Williams ranked 17th.

For fun lets compare Williams with Kanter straight up.

Enes Kanter
Height Wt. Wing Span No Step Vert. Max. Vert. Max. Vert. Reach Bench Agility Sprint
6’11 1/4in. 259 7’ 1 1/2 in. 26.0 in. 32 ½ in. 11’10 in. 14 11.30 3.26
Derrick Williams (College play has shown around the basket he is an explosive leaper) They say that is how gets his shot off against bigger players.
Height Wt. Wing Span No Step Vert. Max Vert. Max Vert. Reach Bench Agility Sprint
6’ 8 3/4 in. 248 7’ 1 1/2 in. 29.0 34 1/2in. 11’ 10 1/2 in. 19 11.03 3.23
Wing Span tied.
No step vertical Williams wins
Max vertical Williams wins
Bench Press Williams wins
Max vertical reach Williams wins
Agility Williams wins
Sprint Williams wins
Height and fitness Kanter wins to be fair. When and if Williams gets in really good shape he should beat Kanter even worse in the test results.
 
BENTLEY said:
Passing on Kanter might end up REALLY HURTING. Passing on Knight? -- I don't think so. He's gonna be a good player, sure, but I continue to be perplexed by the inflated love of him. The only way I can make sense of it is the void left by Deron makes some inflate this year's best replacement. Since I wasn't overly impressed with Knight's running of the Kentucky offense in the tourney I prefer to wait for something better or at least something that won't cost a 3rd pick. JMO.
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Well, if Knight becomes Deron or Paul caliber, we are certainly going to regret not taking him. I just feel, based on the players resumes, that chances of Knight being top PG, like Deron, are a lot greater than Kanter becoming someone like Kevin Love.
 
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