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KOC is a *****

write4u said:
It was reported that no team could offer more than the MLE. But there was nothing about an offer until Portland. And as Matthews said, the Jazz never made an offer, and it was reported by Siler that they told him they would let the market dictate his value. And just as with Millsap, Portland made an exhorbitant offer. No one can deny that they are overpaying Matthews. My beef is that he fit well with the Jazz and that there's a good chance he will be worth more in the future. I'm also pissed because I think it's pretty evident they could've gotten him for less than what Portland offered if they had a discussion. But they never discussed it; they said let the market dictate. So we have Bell now, which is a good consolation and will probably help us more next year. But we still need another guard and if we matched Matthews, we probably would not have been able to get a good one.
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SO what magic offer should KOC offered that Matthews would have so wowed at that he wouldn't even look at other offers?
 
This is the question: If KOC offers Wes 4 @ 16 before the FA period begins, does he take it? Why would he? Now he's got his baseline. The FA period is only days away. Why not bank that offer, look around for a week, and then come back to the Jazz and say, "I'll take it." But here's the better part: In negotiations, Wes can say, "The Jazz are offering me 4 @ 16, what will you give me?" So KOC's best move is either to offer him a really, REALLY lowball offer, or just let him find out what he's worth. All this second guessing is Business 101. KOC handled it perfectly. We lost a player we wanted, but at a price we didn't want him at. This is simple.
 
billyshelby said:
Don't you get it? He never had any intention of offering that much. It's not like Portland's offer was slightly over what the Jazz would pay. It was INSANELY over what they would pay. A 5-10 mil difference in aggregate is something you suck up. More likely, KOC thought it was 20 million more than he wanted to pay.
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How do you know KOC wouldn't have offered $20 million over 5 years? $4 million a year would seem very fair to me, and I'm about 99% sure that if Wesley came back with that particular offer, the Jazz would have matched in a heartbeat.

Or do you mean that Wesley passed up an opportunity to call KOC after Portland's offer and ask the Jazz to make an offer before signing with Portland? There is no way Portland would have allowed Wes to call the Jazz and negotiate while a contract was in front of him... they would have pulled it and torn it apart before Wes could finish dialing KOC's number.

Now of course the Jazz wouldn't have offered the MLE, but if they had made a fair offer to start with, there is a chance that Wesley would never have played the market. Just because Wesley's agent was only in it for the $$$, it doesn't mean Wesley was. While I am sure Wes is happy he got a big pay day, I have a feeling he is feeling sort of remorseful knowing that he is going to potentially spend the next 5 years rotting on the bench behind Brandon Roy instead of starting on the Jazz.

But under the circumstances he was presented with (MLE or $250 K), he really didn't have much of an option!
 
Unless Matthews would have completely give up his chance at playing the market, he would have left anyhow. Portland wasn't just going to see an offer and give up on him. I like Matthews a lot, but there just wasn't a chance for Utah to keep him for a reasonable salary.
 
write4u said:
He would've taken less and his father said he was expecting 3-5 million per year. What does that tell you?
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"Wes Matthews Sr., a former NBA guard, said of his son signing for the full mid-level exception...You look at... Kyle Korver ($5.36 million for the Jazz last season before becoming a free agent). He's just as valuable as them.''

"Just as valuable" as $5.36 million, eh? Mebbe more?

Matthews Sr. said. "They gave him a chance. But it has to be a fair, market-value deal.'' The father said it would be fine if a deal could be reached quickly, but the son knows that it's a business. Is it ever.

Must be "market value," eh? How would ya ever know what that is, I wonder?

https://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/02/a-year-after-being-undrafted-wesley-matthews-set-to-cash-in/
 
Excellent Point by Siler there in that tweet. And basicly what everyone has been telling write and GOAT all along. Get a clue guys. We would not have gotten Wes back unless we were matching the offer he got from Portland, which we would have been stupid to do.
 
G-O-A-T said:
Still think the Jazz screwed up by not making any sort of offer (minimum tender is insulting). If for no other reason than to take away all of Matthews verbal ammo against the Jazz for not making an offer.
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You do understand that they HAVE to make the tender to have Matthews be restricted right?
 
G-O-A-T said:
Still think the Jazz screwed up by not making any sort of offer (minimum tender is insulting). If for no other reason than to take away all of Matthews verbal ammo against the Jazz for not making an offer.
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I have to admit, this is a solid attempt to save face.
 
The bottom line is that Wesley Matthews can say whatever the hell he wants to now. It's a done deal. He's getting his money. He knew exactly what he was getting into. He gambled by accepting a contract that large. He assumed that the Jazz would match ANY contract he could find, but he was wrong. Unfortunately for him, the reality is now sinking in that he's not going to be a starter next year. And, based on other offers he may or may not have seen during this whole process, he may realize that he is stuck behind a great player AND largely untradeable.

Maybe it's true that he would have accepted less money to play for the Jazz. The problem with that is that the devil is in the details. He didn't say he would take less. He said he MIGHT have taken less. And, are we really to believe that armed with an agent by his side that a Jazz offer would have stopped them from even looking around the league? There were rumors from the start that Portland was interested. Do you honestly think that there was any offer short of the full MLE that would have led them to not even take Portland's calls? I highly doubt it.

And once they realized that Portland WAS willing to offer full MLE, how much do we really believe he would have taken below that number to play for the Jazz? Half? 75%? Less years? Not a chance in hell. He might (and I stress MIGHT) have been willing to knock off a million a year to guarantee signing with the Jazz. But even that is doubtful. I imagine that they were so convinced that the Jazz were going to match any offer that they could very well have signed the Portland deal anyway.

Just my not-so-humble opinion...
 
Ben10 said:
You do understand that they HAVE to make the tender to have Matthews be restricted right?
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Yes. My complaint is that they tendered him $400 K or whatever the minimum tender is... They should have tendered 3 years for $12 million or something like that... made a "fair" offer. Sure, Wes probably wouldn't have signed right then and there, but it would have left him with a meaningful OPTION. Giving him the minimum tender left him with no option and therefore he had no choice but to take the best money.

The Jazz did the same thing with Millsap last year and it pissed me off... signing players to contracts isn't like buying cars, you are dealing with personal relationships between players, organizations, and fans. If you treat a person like a piece of property they will respond back accordingly. Seriously, how could it possibly hurt the team to make a fair, but low-end offer as the tender instead of the bare minimum by league rules? Instead though, they chose to play hardball and got burned without giving themselves ANY chance to play on their prior relationships.
 
This thread amuses me. Way to go Write4u. Someone needs to put egg on his face.

And G-O-A-T, please don't add insult to idiocy in complaining about the QO. Please don't mention it ever again.
 
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