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I know I'm new here, but has InGameStrategy ever made a post that wasn't just complaining about Jerry Sloan?
To answer your question, Rich, I do sometimes make posts that do not "complain" about Jerry Sloan, but only when Jerry Sloan isn't a key part of the problem.

I don't aspire to hate on ol' Jer; the chicken (observing poor in-game decisions and poor player development) came before the egg (looking for ways to criticize Sloan). I would love to say that the coaches, FO, and players have done everything they can to maximize Utah's success, but it seems to me that being a little more astute on substitution patterns, on-court combinations, and consistency in rewarding players (e.g., play a player more if he's doing well, bench him briefly if he's not) is a lot easier to do than land a team-transforming trade or signing an x-factor free agent.

As for the FO's role, drafting is partially a guessing game, and trades and signings depend on other entities outside the organization (players, teams, agents, or any or all of the above). The Jazz organization could be smarter in that department, but those events number a handful of per year. Effective in-game coaching, on the other hand, is tested 82 to 100+ times in every season. While the impact of FO decisions (i.e., signing AK to a max 7-year deal instead of waiting a year and signing him to a max 5-year deal or less) can be far-ranging, coaching decisions can tweak the outcome of a given game more directly.
 
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I know I'm new here, but has InGameStrategy ever made a post that wasn't just complaining about Jerry Sloan?

That is indeed a primary theme with S2, but I think it's actually secondary to his main point and overriding theme, which is that he would do a better job than any of the coaches or front office personnel and that the Jazz would be much more successful if they would all only seek, and defer to, his advice on every action they take.
 
That is indeed a primary theme with S2, but I think it's actually secondary to his main point and overriding theme, which is that he would do a better job than any of the coaches or front office personnel and that the Jazz would be much more successful if they would all only seek, and defer to, his advice on every action they take.
I would welcome the opportunity, and would be happy to take any of the coaching positions at 1/50th Jerry's salary plus expenses. Deference not necessary--at least not on Day 1 ;).

Your petty and hyperbolic whining is unfounded, though, Hopper, because part of the draw of websites such as JazzFanz is to vicariously assume the role of coaches, FOs, owners, players, agents, and their handlers. (Or in your case, Hopper, hick fans.) RealGM, a predecessor website to even the earlier incarnation of JazzFanz, was formally named with that purpose in mind.

That being said, I wouldn't be so adamant on my stance on player development and coaching decisions if I didn't think that it is the #1 most easily changeable problem that the Jazz have. Not renewing Jerry to solve the problem might not be necessary, but it would take a stiffer spine from Greg Miller or the assistant coaches to point out these glaring, repeated errors in strategy. What also causes my views to stand out from the others, though, is not just their thoroughness but also their rarity; for many JazzFanz, picking out exciting trades or FAs is more fun that analyzing the actual operations that are under the team's control already.

(The #2 most easily changeable problem is to stop bending over and granting contract extensions to players who don't deserve it. Exhibit A is AK; Exhibit B is Memo. Exhibit C might be Boozer. Not sure if it's KOC or Greg or someone else in the organization who is so paranoid about retaining these players, sometimes even before their previous contract is through. Oh, and there you go, Hopper and Rich and others: an example of a comment that doesn't likely involve Jerry Sloan.)
 
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He needs to be moved to another team. Utah was his first so other teams will be interested to see if their system can get any production out of him. We have no freakin use for him at all so why not package him up and ship him off?
 
To answer your question, Rich, I do sometimes make posts that do not "complain" about Jerry Sloan, but only when Jerry Sloan isn't a key part of the problem.

I don't aspire to hate on ol' Jer; the chicken (observing poor in-game decisions and poor player development) came before the egg (looking for ways to criticize Sloan). I would love to say that the coaches, FO, and players have done everything they can to maximize Utah's success, but it seems to me that being a little more astute on substitution patterns, on-court combinations, and consistency in rewarding players (e.g., play a player more if he's doing well, bench him briefly if he's not) is a lot easier to do than land a team-transforming trade or signing an x-factor free agent.

As for the FO's role, drafting is partially a guessing game, and trades and signings depend on other entities outside the organization (players, teams, agents, or any or all of the above). The Jazz organization could be smarter in that department, but those events number a handful of per year. Effective in-game coaching, on the other hand, is tested 82 to 100+ times in every season. While the impact of FO decisions (i.e., signing AK to a max 7-year deal instead of waiting a year and signing him to a max 5-year deal or less) can be far-ranging, coaching decisions can tweak the outcome of a given game more directly.

to offer the contrasting view -
There are a handlful of STRATEGIES to Jerry's model and one is playing time consistency. There is a value to this that anyone who has played in organized sports can attest to. Another is that proper work-ethic before the game and behind the scenes is valueable and is a vital part of contributing. Jerry has said - if you work hard you get better and if you work hard you have a chance to play. A third value of Jerry's is rotating team defense. In this, the team needs to be orchestrated and well practiced to execute this.

Fes has struggled with his work ethic. Jerry thinks it is in the best interest of ALL players to stay true to his theory
As a result, Fes has a hard time seeing court time - hence he misses important practice time - the crux of INGAMESTRAT's message)
(The regular season is a combination of practice and playing for play-off positioning)
And thus Fes did not have the requesite time to practice to be a smooth cog in the team defense - thus he didn't make the 8ish man play off rotation

so with this you could conclude (and INGAMESTRAT tells us) "So then Jerry made a mistake not getting fes the required court time to practice to be part of the team system"

I think Jerry sticks with this plan becuase:
The defensive play of the team just before AK was injured near the end of the season was at top 3 - it WAS working. WE saw it. And for those of you who value his opinion, David Locke (SLC/Jazz radio guy) noted this for about 2 weeks straight, statistically pointing out the Jazz defensive play was at serious-contender level. So Jerry's IN SEASON STRATEGY worked. The Jazz was playing very well and in my perfectly omnicient opinion (becuase on the message board each of us know all) was that the Jazz were playing well enough to 'challenge' the Lakers (not beat them but maybe with some fortunate breaks or something.)

So it was a valid, defensible strategy by ole Jer. And, it did not crush or even threaten the team chemistry by allowing a jackpotter to play...

We don't know if INGAMESTRAT's model would be better. And i will add that it COULD be. Jerry for certain isn't blind, dumb, senile, he has a method. And he's made wrong choices before - and will continue to do so. (Just glad we don't have a HarcherFanzz site where all of my work day is scrutinzed andn replayed iwth hindsight.) But his choice in this case to stay with his strategy did work in my opinion.
 
In the end it doomed us though. I don't care how good it looks along the way I just care about results, and Sloan doesn't get them like he should from young players.

He creates a situation in which his players are unprepared to play. Words are wonderful things and given enough time maybe you can misuse them to convince yourself and others that this is the correct procedure- but the proof is in the puddin.
 
Biggest WTF: Brandon Jennings selected "Tiny Gallon" with the #15 pick. Gallon isn't even a lock to get drafted as of this writing.

I Heart BJ.
Jennings must have read my post in the darft thread pimpin' my man, Tiny. If Millsap shoots long, you'll need a Tiny Gallon to clean the glass. That's what I'm talkin' 'bout.
 
You keep telling yourself that. Also, in other news, when the Jazz are 100 percent healthy, they are championship contenders.
Well, until we've seen them fully healthy, I don't think we should judge. I mean, look at the Lakers - 100% healthy for the Finals. Same with Boston. How come no one on these teams ever gets hurt and the Jazz suffer injuries to players year after year? The Millers are the most cursed owners in league history. We all need to show our support by upgarding our season tickets and spending at least $500 on merchandise with the new logo.

And we gotta hope they keep this team together. Re-signing Boozer and Korver should be Priority #1!
 
Well, until we've seen them fully healthy, I don't think we should judge. I mean, look at the Lakers - 100% healthy for the Finals. Same with Boston. How come no one on these teams ever gets hurt and the Jazz suffer injuries to players year after year? The Millers are the most cursed owners in league history. We all need to show our support by upgarding our season tickets and spending at least $500 on merchandise with the new logo.

And we gotta hope they keep this team together. Re-signing Boozer and Korver should be Priority #1!

Well that's not realistic. Both Lakers and Celtics have had many injuries over the past couple of seasons. Bynum, Big Baby, KG, Kobe, Gasol only played 65 games. The point of the regular season to the Celtics this past year was just to get everyone healthy for the playoffs, and it worked.
 
to offer the contrasting view -
There are a handlful of STRATEGIES to Jerry's model and one is playing time consistency. There is a value to this that anyone who has played in organized sports can attest to.
I respectfully disagree that playing time consistency is an effective strategy because playing time is one of the most powerful incentives (weapons) that coaches have to motivate players. Also, on a given night, some players are doing better and some players are doing worse, which is when "inconsistent" playing time (adjusting the lineup and minutes) is warranted. Third, matchups against a given team dictate that some combinations are more effective in some games than others. The most glaring example is that while playing Millsap and Boozer is OK and possibly superior strategy against some teams, it is not a superior strategy against the Lakers and has not been so for multiple years.

Why in the world is playing time consistency valuable? Why is it good that some players have guaranteed "job security" (playing time) and some players don't? How does this possibly motivate players more than a philosophy of "If you perform you get more PT; if you don't, you get less"?

Another is that proper work-ethic before the game and behind the scenes is valueable and is a vital part of contributing. Jerry has said - if you work hard you
get better and if you work hard you have a chance to play.
Unfortunately Jerry has broken his own philosophy then because Koufos did work hard and did get somewhat better but his chances to play were almost completely cut off. Also, the "works hard" and "plays hard" moniker was attributed to Harpring for years, and there were times when he played when he was not the most effective player to be out there. That's why the true test of playing time should be on-court performance. Fortunately Phil Jackson recognized that in Ron Artest, and perhaps PJ was helpful in helping Tru Warier to temper his off-court demons also.

A third value of Jerry's is rotating team defense. In this, the team needs to be orchestrated and well practiced to execute this.
OK, then if this is a value of his defense, then when Boozer doesn't do this effectively, then he should be benched. Boozer is too effective to be benched for more than a play or so at a time, but there was no enforcement of "rotating team defense" when it came to Boozer. If you propose that Boozer should've been penalized in some other way, such as paying for the team meal at Crowne Burger, fine, but Sloan has also violated his own "value."

Fes has struggled with his work ethic. Jerry thinks it is in the best interest of ALL players to stay true to his theory
As a result, Fes has a hard time seeing court time - hence he misses important practice time - the crux of INGAMESTRAT's message)
(The regular season is a combination of practice and playing for play-off positioning)
And thus Fes did not have the requesite time to practice to be a smooth cog in the team defense - thus he didn't make the 8ish man play off rotation
Yet, despite poor off-court habits, Fesenko was a superior option against the Lakers (and in several cases during the regular season) than was playing Millsap and Boozer together. I prefer the primary criteria to be on-court impact on victories, not whether they keep their shirt tucked in during practice.


so with this you could conclude (and INGAMESTRAT tells us) "So then Jerry made a mistake not getting fes the required court time to practice to be part of the team system"
Correct. There is no substitute for on-court time.

I think Jerry sticks with this plan becuase:
The defensive play of the team just before AK was injured near the end of the season was at top 3 - it WAS working. WE saw it. And for those of you who value his opinion, David Locke (SLC/Jazz radio guy) noted this for about 2 weeks straight, statistically pointing out the Jazz defensive play was at serious-contender level. So Jerry's IN SEASON STRATEGY worked. The Jazz was playing very well and in my perfectly omnicient opinion (becuase on the message board each of us know all) was that the Jazz were playing well enough to 'challenge' the Lakers (not beat them but maybe with some fortunate breaks or something.)
There is no doubt that not having AK hurt Utah's chances. But when Okur went down, Sloan was slow to replace those minutes with Fes and Koufos. (Think InGameStrategy and BetweenGameStrategy.] And the team paid for Sloan not finding time for these 7-footers earlier in the season, even though he should have known from previous matchups vs. the Lakers that a frontcourt of Boozer, Millsap, and whoever (or even Boozer, Okur, and whoever) was insufficient. Furthermore, Boston showed that with a legitimate 5-spot rotation of legitimate centers, the Lakers could be handled. If it weren't for Perkins' injury, the championship banner quite possibly would've been hung in the Fleet Center.

We don't know if INGAMESTRAT's model would be better. And i will add that it COULD be. Jerry for certain isn't blind, dumb, senile, he has a method. And he's made wrong choices before - and will continue to do so. (Just glad we don't have a HarcherFanzz site where all of my work day is scrutinzed andn replayed iwth hindsight.) But his choice in this case to stay with his strategy did work in my opinion.
So was your criteria for that the strategy "worked" that they got the 5 seed, made it into the second round, and got crushed by the Lakers? Not mine. This team had the potential to do far better than a five seed. With better coaching (and perhaps with better FO decisions, too, such as not having albatross contracts for Kiri and Okur), they had the potential to beat the Lakers--or, at the very least, win a couple games against them. I guess that your standards and/or expectations are significantly lower than mine.
 
I don't care how good it looks along the way I just care about results, and Sloan doesn't get them like he should from young players.

Young players like who, exactly, eh, Square? Undrafted Wes Matthews? 50th (or whatever) pick, Paul Millsap? Deron Williams, who many here said would never be more than a journeyman point guard? Or are ya thinkin of that goofball, Fess? Only magic can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

P.S. Eric Maynor was comin along quite well in his rookie year, too, come to think of it.
 
Well since you mention them how do we know they would not have done better elsewhere? You know who I'm talking about, playing dumb won't help.

That philosophy of his sucks. I can see it working to a point but after that it does more damage than good.


Young players like who, exactly, eh, Square? Undrafted Wes Matthews? 50th (or whatever) pick, Paul Millsap? Deron Williams, who many here said would never be more than a journeyman point guard? Or are ya thinkin of that goofball, Fess? Only magic can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

P.S. Eric Maynor was comin along quite well in his rookie year, too, come to think of it.
 
Well since you mention them how do we know they would not have done better elsewhere? You know who I'm talking about, playing dumb won't help.

That philosophy of his sucks. I can see it working to a point but after that it does more damage than good.

You don't know if they could have done worse elsewhere either.
 
The last thing I wanted was a Sloan flame war out of this thread. Damn it.
 
OK. What first comes to mind because they are current problems are Fes and Koufos. Like was said earlier the system as it is had their preparation level far below what it should have been. It's just not a good idea to keep players from getting minutes during the regular season and then need them for the playoffs and not have him ready.

Actually I don't. Dee Brown, mebbe? He's doin purty good in Europe, I hear.
 
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