LDS church membership statistics

[colton]

ok, a quick read of some of the more recent posts in the other thread (and we need two threads about this because...) is that some sort of a prophesy has been made about the growth of the LDS church and if the church leadership can't show numbers to back up this prophecy it might lead some believers to question the prophecy, and perhaps question the value of their membership in the church? Or something like that...

at least that's my simplistic interpretation of the other thread

and why are there two threads again?

Two threads furthers the LDS goal of world domination. Our threads are growing at an exponential rate. I could create a new thread to discuss the number of LDS threads if you'd like.

I like Stoked's answer better.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I recall an LDS prophet telling members to not put off having a family before you were financially fit to do so. The advice was to have children right away, and let the Lord worry about taking care of them while you go to school, etc.

I do not recall exactly who it was nor do I care to get into an argument on it, but there you have it if you want to investigate further.

I recall the same speech, and I recall many more similar statements when I was a member. Too me it is laughable that anyone familiar with the Mormon Church is claiming that there is no pressure within the faith to have large families. My experience as a Mormon was exactly the opposite.

 

[VINYLONE]

I recall the same speech, and I recall many more similar statements when I was a member. Too me it is laughable that anyone familiar with the Mormon Church is claiming that there is no pressure within the faith to have large families. My experience as a Mormon was exactly the opposite.

Of course the simple conclusion to draw from this is that they want more and more people dependent on the church.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'd probably put it between the doner kebab and pizza, with pizza winning by a nose.

I would put pizza probably #4 actually, but I am a serious carnivore (real southern BBQ and excellent beef are my #2 and #3). But could you combine pizza and doner into some kind of super food, which would transcend all other foods? Mu-wa-hah-hah-hah!!! <evil grin>

 

[LogGrad98]

When I left my mission I had an interview with my mission president, as all returning missionaries do I believe. He asked me if there was someone special waiting for me at home. I told him not really, but there were a few prospects. He said that it is our duty to multiply and replenish the earth. He said our sacred responsibility was to bring many children directly into the fold born "under the covenant". He told me not to wait, but to immediately start looking for my eternal mate and to begin our family as soon as heavenly father directed her to me (his words).

I then had an interview with a member of the area presidency. They were on-hand as I was one of the first groups of missionaries moved to East Germany to finish out my mission (spent my last year there), and me and another Elder were among the first to leave the mission that was just newly re-opened a year and a half before or so. The area authority, I cannot remember who he was, probably in my journals somewhere, gave me almost exactly the same spiel as my mission president had. That our sacred responsibility was to find our eternal mate, be sealed in the temple and bring children into the fold, so as many of God's children as possible were "born under the convenant". He also said to get married as soon as heavenly father directed my future wife to me, and not to make the mistake, that often leads to grave sin (his words), of waiting and prolonging any relationship that was not blessed in the temple.

Needless to say, when I got home I felt bad taking some girls out when it was just for fun and I didn't view them as marriage material. I really dated only a couple of girls before asking one to marry me. Luckily we have made it work, and have been married almost 23 years now, with 3 great kids, and another kid. But I still feel like a lot of that was a big mistake and I have often wondered how my life would have turned out differently had I waited and gotten my bearings after my mission before being worried about settling down.

Do not get me wrong, I do not in any way blame those church leaders for a "life gone wrong" or any such crap, but I do wonder how much differently things would have been if I had waited, and waited to have kids, until I (and she) was more emotionally and financially prepared to handle it. I also wonder if I would have started to wonder, sorry if that sounds weird. What is interesting is my mission president tried to drive the point home about getting married quickly by telling me that regret is the most destructive force in the universe and something to be avoided, so to get married soon so I don't regret it. When in actuality I have at time regretted marrying and having kids so soon (by no stretch the who part, just the timing).

I believe the whole idea of multiply and replenish the earth was pushed much harder in earlier years of the church. When I talked to my dad about this one time, he told me he could remember as a very young bishop (in the 1960's and in his early 30's) that they should push very hard to get their young kids married in the temple so they could avoid a life of sin. He was admonished for not pushing young kids hard enough to get married if they chose not to go on a mission. He told me they were pushed harder about marrying as soon as possible than they ever were about serving a mission.

 

[Stoked]

My mission president asked if I wanted to talk to him about anything before I left. I told him no and I hope to never see or speak to him again. He asked me to leave and I got up and left. Took us about 30 seconds.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

My bishop asked me if I had a problem with ************. I said, "Nope, works every time." He never called me in for another meeting again.

Edit: bumped up against the auto-filter I guess. All of those astrisks in my post are a word that starts with an "m" and rhymes with self-stimulation.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

^I was 16 years old, BTW.

 

[infection]

a word that starts with an "m" and rhymes with self-stimulation.

Mself-stimulation?

[edit: guess not -- it survived the profanity filter]

 

[sirkickyass]

Those numbers are on the web page I created, linked to in the first post of the thread.

I should have been more specific, I would like actual headcount/attendance numbers which is a thing that we know the church has but doesn't release.

Side note: a ward would never have 10-12 members. It would be a branch.

Yeah, this is the kind of thing I don't know.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Mself-stimulation?

[edit: guess not -- it survived the profanity filter]

Did you miss the word "rhymes?" Maybe I need to simplify. It starts with Master and ends with bation.

Based on the way this thread is going I half expect someone who is currently active in the church to claim that a Mormon leader would never ask a kid a question like that, but when I was in my teens bishops were fascinated by this subject, and they asked all of the teenagers very personal questions like this one.

 

[infection]

Did you miss the word "rhymes?" Maybe I need to simplify. It starts with Master and ends with bation.

Why does it start with Master? Who the hell is that, anyway, and are you really trying to tell me that mself-stimulation does not rhyme with self-stimulation? Jokes on you, buddy.

 

[colton]

When I left my mission I had an interview with my mission president, as all returning missionaries do I believe. He asked me if there was someone special waiting for me at home. I told him not really, but there were a few prospects. He said that it is our duty to multiply and replenish the earth. He said our sacred responsibility was to bring many children directly into the fold born "under the covenant". He told me not to wait, but to immediately start looking for my eternal mate and to begin our family as soon as heavenly father directed her to me (his words).

I then had an interview with a member of the area presidency. They were on-hand as I was one of the first groups of missionaries moved to East Germany to finish out my mission (spent my last year there), and me and another Elder were among the first to leave the mission that was just newly re-opened a year and a half before or so. The area authority, I cannot remember who he was, probably in my journals somewhere, gave me almost exactly the same spiel as my mission president had. That our sacred responsibility was to find our eternal mate, be sealed in the temple and bring children into the fold, so as many of God's children as possible were "born under the convenant". He also said to get married as soon as heavenly father directed my future wife to me, and not to make the mistake, that often leads to grave sin (his words), of waiting and prolonging any relationship that was not blessed in the temple.

Interesting. My experience was very different. As you know, I also served in Germany and got off nearly exactly the same time you did. But my mission president, who actually worked in the missionary department in SLC prior to becoming a mission president, just said "It's not my place to tell you when to get married, but I will tell you WHERE to get married--and that is in the temple."

 

[Deleted member 848]

I would put pizza probably #4 actually, but I am a serious carnivore (real southern BBQ and excellent beef are my #2 and #3). But could you combine pizza and doner into some kind of super food, which would transcend all other foods? Mu-wa-hah-hah-hah!!! <evil grin>

It tastes ****ing amazing. There's also this thing called turkish pizza (Lahmacun I think its called?) which is also delectable.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

My mission president asked if I wanted to talk to him about anything before I left. I told him no and I hope to never see or speak to him again. He asked me to leave and I got up and left. Took us about 30 seconds.

Wait, like you were joking around because you had seen eachother so much for 2 years, or you guys actually didn't like eachother?

 

[LogGrad98]

Interesting. My experience was very different. As you know, I also served in Germany and got off nearly exactly the same time you did. But my mission president, who actually worked in the missionary department in SLC prior to becoming a mission president, just said "It's not my place to tell you when to get married, but I will tell you WHERE to get married--and that is in the temple."

Yeah, I was under your last pres for a few months, I can see him having that approach. I am not trying to say this was official church doctrine, but to hear almost the exact same message from 2 higher up authorities gives some weight to the notion that having bigger families and marrying young are things the church espoused at one point, probably largely right up until the Proclamation on the Family.


Btw, I had 5 mission presidents if you count the MTC.

Pinnegar
Burton
Harper
Paul
Meiser

Wow can't believe I could remember all the names. lol

Of them all Burton was my favorite. Awesome dude. We still keep in touch somewhat.

 

[LogGrad98]

It tastes ****ing amazing. There's also this thing called turkish pizza (Lahmacun I think its called?) which is also delectable.

Just wow. I am speechless. I want one of these right now.

 

[The Thriller]

Two things:

#1 many folks are equating "The Church" to Utah culture. Big families are encouraged, promoted, mandated, etc because that is a big part of our culture. It's cheap to live here and unless you're into hunting or winter sports, there's really not anything else to do than to act irresponsibly and mass produce kids (and force those who don't have gigantic families to subsidize you).

Basic economics are changing this already. We are already getting married later and having fewer kids. In fact, I read a report recently that divorce rates have fallen too. I would guess that this is in part due to dating longer, later, having fewer kids, and having more financial stability.

Go to other parts of the country, and suddenly "The Church" doesn't encourage gigantic families. Why? Because we are confusing "the church" with culture. The church focuses on the quality of the family not on quantity.

Of course, the church (literally. Not the culture) isn't blameless. Doctrine of salvation vol.... 2? I think.... Has some stuff written about birth control. While it may have been used by some members as teaching tools I'm not sure if it was ever endorsed by the church as doctrine... Or canon. At least, to my knowledge. Besides, when I read it i got the feeling that the author was targeting those from the counter culture era.

In the end, doctrine of salvation I found to be a lil weird to me. And honestly, I can't imagine god would desire for his children to be born into overburdened or broken families rather than allow the parents to enjoy marriage.

#2 when, where, and how many kids isn't anyone's business. Any mission president, bishop, etc who overextends his authority has been given a stern warning by The Lord in D&C. That's a personal and eternal decision that is not to be messed with by anyone other than the individuals involved. I too have heard stuff about mission presidents mandating that some of their missionaries get married within x amount of time. I question these stories. They were about as prevelent on the mission as hearing stories about the 3 nephites being sited by someone in the mission or about some demon expulsion. But if any are true, lets just remember that mission presidents vary from qualifications to sensitivity. My brother's mission president did countless idiotic things (mandated his missionaries to knock doors on thanksgiving and Christmas.... Limited email to like 1 email/letter to the family per week, and other ridiculous rules). Would it surprise me if this over zealous and quite honestly, ignorant man advised missionaries who to get married to and when? Nope.

Whereas, my mission president (after his first year) rarely made a mistake or idiotic rule. My last interview with him? It's sort of the anti-stereotype. All we talked about was school and career. No mention of marriage. And that's the way it should be IMO.

He's in the q of the 70 now.

 

[LogGrad98]

My last mission pres was a great guy, I loved him a lot in that role. He was always caring, but stern. His was an admonition, not a mandate. He and the area authority, who both were european, said about the same things, but it was along the lines of "don't wait" and "multiply and replenish the earth" kind of stuff, not a "set-a-date" program. I am sure that it influenced my decision somewhat, but I knew I was going to marry this girl after our first date, we just hit it off, but if I had it to do over again I think I would still extend out the time-tables somewhat.

I have encouraged my kids to wait until they are out of school to start their families, or into their careers a few years. Also to wait until they have been married a few years before having kids so they can get to know each other and have some good memories with their new spouse under conditions of less responsibility. Then when they are more emotionally mature and secure in their lives to start adding children.

Of course kids don't do what you suggest anyway, but that is another story.

 

[LogGrad98]

Whereas, my mission president (after his first year) rarely made a mistake or idiotic rule. My last interview with him? It's sort of the anti-stereotype. All we talked about was school and career. No mention of marriage. And that's the way it should be IMO.

He's in the q of the 70 now.

I agree that is how it should be.