Legalize marijuana?

[Gameface]

you mean fools who consider empirical evidence on every hand something that portends a possibility which a lot of people are denying on sheer "faith"??

There have been few cultures which have established a pattern of long-term Marijuana use, and maintained a strong economy or intellectual tradition. Morocco might be an example where a good study could amply show the results of long-term use.

There are some neighborhoods in California where a serious evaluation of the users and their habits might easily advance the concern I express. When ordinary people can accurately identify long-term usage by particular cognitive impairments, I'd say the only reason we don't have a competent study done scientifically that supports the same conclusion is a cultural aversion to making that conclusion.

Colorado data since legalization has a lot of people wanting to reverse legalization. A wave of dope DUIs might be police prejudice, but the accidents/deaths on the highways increase looks like a hard connection to use.

The user trend to progress into other drugs is another thing. While I don't know why people do what they do in that regard, crossing the MJ line is statistically linked to meth, cocaine, and other drugs. Let's see if OB can pull up something that runs against that correlation. . . .

My favorite part are all the links you've provided for all the claims you've made that don't jive with anything I've heard

 

[One Brow]

While I don't know why people do what they do in that regard, crossing the MJ line is statistically linked to meth, cocaine, and other drugs. Let's see if OB can pull up something that runs against that correlation. . . .

I have no reason to suspect this is false. If you have the personality that finds altering your perceptions through drugs appealing, I'm sure that's equally true whether the drug is alcohol, marijuana, heroin, or anything else. If you don't mind skirting the law to get drugs, again I'm sure that's equally true whether the drug is alcohol, marijuana, heroin, or anything else. I would be surprised if there was no correlation.

However, correlation =/= causation. I have seen no evidence that a higher percentage of teens who smoked marijuana, never did heroin, go on to other drugs than teens who did heroin, but never smoked marijuana. Marijuana seems to be first most often because it is more abundant, not because of any supposed gateway effect.

 

[GVC]

Not at all. I just feel like some of the concerns that a given person might be trying to solve with weed (like anxiety, which is the main driver for one of my closest friends), could be addressed with diet and exercise-- which I think would have a wider range of benefits than the mere smoking of pot.

I don't have that big of a problem with pot, honestly. I'm for legalizing it. With that said: it bums me out when ppl complain about how stressful their life is (not saying this is you, I'm speaking generally), and how big their mood swings are-- and their only solution is the smoking of marijuana, as they continue to eat pizza and ice cream 3x a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

People who think weed is some magical cure-all are not to be taken seriously. I certainly never intended to imply otherwise.

As with most things, there are positives and negatives with weed consumption, and different people consuming different amounts will respond differently. For some people, the positives outweigh the negatives even at very high consumption levels. As you know people who use weed as a crutch/excuse, I know people whose quality of life has been improved dramatically with weed. I don't think there's a clearly established link between occasional/responsible weed smoking and anti-social (in a broad sense) behavior. I don't doubt that having everyone smoke from dawn to dusk would have negative societal/economic consequences either.

FWIW, when I lived in the woods, my diet was as good as it's been during my adult life (mostly because I simply didn't have access to fast food, and had to cook all my meals). Obviously, pot smokers and non-pot smokers differ on a number of observables and unobservables, but I'd guess the average pot smoker in the Pacific Northwest makes healthier food choices than the average non-pot smoker.

 

[Deleted member 848]

People who think weed is some magical cure-all are not to be taken seriously. I certainly never intended to imply otherwise.

As with most things, there are positives and negatives with weed consumption, and different people consuming different amounts will respond differently. For some people, the positives outweigh the negatives even at very high consumption levels. As you know people who use weed as a crutch/excuse, I know people whose quality of life has been improved dramatically with weed. I don't think there's a clearly established link between occasional/responsible weed smoking and anti-social (in a broad sense) behavior. I don't doubt that having everyone smoke from dawn to dusk would have negative societal/economic consequences either.

FWIW, when I lived in the woods, my diet was as good as it's been during my adult life (mostly because I simply didn't have access to fast food, and had to cook all my meals). Obviously, pot smokers and non-pot smokers differ on a number of observables and unobservables, but I'd guess the average pot smoker in the Pacific Northwest makes healthier food choices than the average non-pot smoker.

Of course. Everything you're saying is true.

For sure I'd bet your diet was best when you lived in the woods. It's a bummer that city-life is so non-conducive to eating well. Hopefully you can get back to that.

 

[Hantlers]

What did you hate about it? It's not pretty and it's too damn cold, but not a bad place otherwise. Just the same, I couldn't be happier with were I'm living now. I grew up in SLC, and even though I still love it and consider it my true home, I'm really digging the northwest.

The food isn't that great, the people just aren't who I typically enjoy, big rivalry with my school. I can't say I enjoy the people in Bozeman much better (damn yuppies), but the town is better IMO.

 

[fishonjazz]

So I guess the only folks still huffing on this stale fume are the dopeheads who can't follow logic anymore. Or understand English.

Exhibit A in my soapbox oration of what happens to people who use weed, if they weren't dopes they will become dopes. People who can sort out complicated relationships in issues would have got my point that we don't need to legitimize government to make people do "right". The effects of pot are pretty evident to people who aren't dopeheads. Except for the whole rebellion subculture glory of sneaking a puff or making some green on the trade, Marijuana would be just another weed.

I don't use marijuana btw

 

[fishonjazz]

I couldn't agree with this any more. Diet (and exercise) can be huge in changing one's state of mind.

Not instantly or in the same way pot does though.

 

[fishonjazz]

crossing the MJ line is statistically linked to meth, cocaine, and other drugs.

The reason this is true is because marijuana is illegal and sold by drug dealers.

See, drug dealers often have other drugs besides pot. And since the person purchasing the pot from the drug dealer is already breaking the law anyways, it's not a big jump to get some cocaine from that drug dealer as well.

If pot were legal and being purchased mainly from stores then there would be less people trying coke, meth, etc. Since the store would not sell those drugs and those drugs would be illegal still (separating them from pot for alot of people)

 

[NAOS]

How many different threads have we had on this topic? It seems to cycle back around every 8 or 9 months.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not sure what accidents/highway deaths you are talking about. We are at historic lows here in this state for that.

Sounds like babe might just be acting like a douche

 

[Stoked]

How many different threads have we had on this topic? It seems to cycle back around every 8 or 9 months.

Same with gun, police, gay marriage and racism threads.

 

[babe]

Your point about California neighbourhoods being indicative of what long-term pot use causes, is extremely problematic.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fair enough.

I'm sure is not a single issue culture anywhere. . .

 

[babe]

Stop bothering him with asking for specific details. Take this on faith...

don't ever take anything on faith that can be addressed with intelligence. . . .

My information on a few neighborhoods might be hearsay. I don't live in the pot culture and probably wouldn't recognize marijuana plants in a patch of weeds. In pots in basements under a battery of lights, yes. My tenants whom I have known to be pot users have been the worst tenants. Lesbian/gay couples, the best. Something about the way it figures in their thinking.

In the sixties I formed my opinion on the use from descriptions of hashish users in Morocco and some other places where it was very prevalent.

The reference on Colorado reactions came from some news sources.

Areas near Berkeley, described by a friend from Oakland. . . . was my other "source".

From cleaning up apartments after evicting tenants too laid back to pay rent, finding bongs and such, and having to defumigate the place, replace carpets, repaint walls. Potheads look like a plague on society to me.

 

[One Brow]

From cleaning up apartments after evicting tenants too laid back to pay rent, finding bongs and such, and having to defumigate the place, replace carpets, repaint walls. Potheads look like a plague on society to me.

You have likely had many pot-smoking tenant who nonetheless cleaned up thoroughly, and you never associated them with pot-smoking.

 

[NAOS]

you mean fools who consider empirical evidence on every hand something that portends a possibility which a lot of people are denying on sheer "faith"??

There have been few cultures which have established a pattern of long-term Marijuana use, and maintained a strong economy or intellectual tradition. Morocco might be an example where a good study could amply show the results of long-term use.

There are some neighborhoods in California where a serious evaluation of the users and their habits might easily advance the concern I express. When ordinary people can accurately identify long-term usage by particular cognitive impairments, I'd say the only reason we don't have a competent study done scientifically that supports the same conclusion is a cultural aversion to making that conclusion.

Colorado data since legalization has a lot of people wanting to reverse legalization. A wave of dope DUIs might be police prejudice, but the accidents/deaths on the highways increase looks like a hard connection to use.

The user trend to progress into other drugs is another thing. While I don't know why people do what they do in that regard, crossing the MJ line is statistically linked to meth, cocaine, and other drugs. Let's see if OB can pull up something that runs against that correlation. . . .

EDIT:
The first bolded words reveal your biases. I'd point to some intellectual traditions in the Caribbean, but you'd probably laugh and then point to their struggling economies. I'd counter by saying it was European colonialism that over-populated those islands, blocked attempts by Caribbean peoples to form a united economy in the early 60s, and ****ed their economies forever. You may or may not reply. Then, you might even dare challenge the merits of the intellectual tradition. I'd disagree by pointing to music, poetry, and fiction, in particular, but also to economics, philosophy, and political science. Then, if you were to disagree with the path-breaking nature of these traditions, what would you be left with?

Which California neighborhoods are you thinking about?

 

[NAOS]

As a light-user of marijuana for many years, I'd like to add two things to this thread, then I'll duck out:

I have always found marijuana to be alimentary to the senses, in general. Eating it and vaporizing it produce the best results (if heightened sensory awareness is the objective). I have witnessed marijuana being used otherwise, and I can say without doubt that in all of those cases, the users, and whatever impairments they my endure or whatever drugs they may ingest later, cannot blame marijuana itself for those consequences. Those situations are simply too complex to draw those causal arrows.

I taught a university-level course on drugs for 3 years, during which time I reviewed tons of literature written by those who allege "cognitive impairments" caused by marijuana. Not only are their data suspicious, the conclusions they draw from them spurious as hell, but their very framing of cognition is ****.

 

[Nate505]

EDIT:
The first bolded words reveal your biases. I'd point to some intellectual traditions in the Caribbean, but you'd probably laugh and then point to their struggling economies. I'd counter by saying it was European colonialism that over-populated those islands, blocked attempts by Caribbean peoples to form a united economy in the early 60s, and ****ed their economies forever. You may or may not reply. Then, you might even dare challenge the merits of the intellectual tradition. I'd disagree by pointing to music, poetry, and fiction, in particular, but also to economics, philosophy, and political science. Then, if you were to disagree with the path-breaking nature of these traditions, what would you be left with?

Which California neighborhoods are you thinking about?

Areas near Berkeley. Not sure what that means...you could be talking about a large portion of Oakland that's been a crap hole for 50 years or so, or an area in South Berekely (like near 66th and Sacramento) like my sister used to live in which might as well be North Oakland. Weed must be the reason it's bad. It couldn't be a thousand other reasons that are way more plausible, like all the gangbangers there. Oh wait, weed caused them too!

 

[babe]

Areas near Berkeley. Not sure what that means...you could be talking about a large portion of Oakland that's been a crap hole for 50 years or so, or an area in South Berekely (like near 66th and Sacramento) like my sister used to live in which might as well be North Oakland. Weed must be the reason it's bad. It couldn't be a thousand other reasons that are way more plausible, like all the gangbangers there. Oh wait, weed caused them too!

One former buddy/co-worker was from Redding, alleged to be a po-dunk town where nothing happened but sex and drugs, lol.

I don't drink, as it is alleged that every drop of alcohol kills one brain cell, and I don't have two to spare ha ha.

I liked Naos' post, because by that I can prove that smoking anything, and drinking anything, will always produce great literature and even greater science. Where have we ever had civilization without vices?

Look at the Biblical Tradition, for example, which produced the Old Testament from direct contact with Sodom and Gomorrah, and Jezebel, and all those little groves on the hilltops where people educated their children with fertility cult rituals.

I doubt I could write three coherent sentences linking a single line of logic from beginning to end without the aid of chocolate.

Aside from actually advocating the benefits of our chosen deviations from pristine healthy lifestyle choices, what kind of science is there that proves how weed is beneficial. Aside from multiple sclerosis and other debilitating diseases where the sufferer might argue how a little artificial euphoria can take a load off the stress. . . .

 

[babe]

You have likely had many pot-smoking tenant who nonetheless cleaned up thoroughly, and you never associated them with pot-smoking.

A tenant who cleans up whatever mess he lived in well enough I can't smell it or feel the grease of it on the walls and in the carpet gets the cleaning deposit back, too. Besides getting absolutely no negative publicity down the road, if anyone asks for a reference.

 

[8]

Completely thrown off by babe's stance on weed.