Letting Paul Millsap leave killed the Utah Jazz

[zbone]

KG was great at defense = True
KG could have played Center for us next to Millsap = True.

Are you saying KG wouldn't have been an upgrade over Memo at the center position? We had Memo as our center. Why not KG?

Because it's not Memo for KG. It's Memo and Boozer. We would have undersized frontcourt trading stellar offense for better defense. KG was at its best as PF enjoying luxury of having great perimeter defenders which Jazz never had apart from Brewer.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Because it's not Memo for KG. It's Memo and Boozer. We would have undersized frontcourt trading stellar offense for better defense. KG was at its best as PF enjoying luxury of having great perimeter defenders which Jazz never had apart from Brewer.

Uhhh... AK? Matthews? Perimeter defense is actually one of the only strengths the wing rotation had on this team. They had to because our rim-protection was hot ****ing garbage.

 

[zbone]

Uhhh... AK? Matthews? Perimeter defense is actually one of the only strengths the wing rotation had on this team. They had to because our rim-protection was hot ****ing garbage.

In 2006-2008?
It's MIN Garnett we are talking about, not Boston. No Mathews, sorry. And AK playing alongside Brewer with KG on the floor equals no spacing at all. Can't play them both for stretches.

 

[NUMBERICA]

In 2006-2008?
It's MIN Garnett we are talking about, not Boston. No Mathews, sorry. And AK playing alongside Brewer with KG on the floor equals no spacing at all. Can't play them both for stretches.

Well in that case, Brewer doesn't qualify either. AK does, though, whether or not he should've been here or not. KG is (or at least was) an exceptional shooter for his position, btw.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Atlanta is that Utah team from two years ago, and we saw how that team fared in the West.

 

[zbone]

Well in that case, Brewer doesn't qualify either. AK does, though, whether or not he should've been here or not. KG is (or at least was) an exceptional shooter for his position, btw.

Actually, I looked up roster and he was in his rookie year so.. yeah. He is sorta there but would hardly see floor.

 

[Hotdog]

Because it's not Memo for KG. It's Memo and Boozer. We would have undersized frontcourt trading stellar offense for better defense. KG was at its best as PF enjoying luxury of having great perimeter defenders which Jazz never had apart from Brewer.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a Boozer/Memo front court would be better than Garnett/Millsap ?

Cmon now.

 

[freakazoid]

I think this is wildly overstated. It also ignores a bunch of variables, it also ignores that issues aren't static.

The Jazz and Millsap walked away from each other, but I don't think there were any serious hard feelings. Also, at the time that all that went down, the Hawks didn't look very good either and it's not as though Paul got some ridiculous check as a UFA either. Paul has been worth $12 million plus for 4.5 seasons now.

Utah was in a steady decline and just missed the playoffs, while the Hawks had been 6th and 5th seeds. It's not so much that Atlanta was in a great situation, but Utah wasn't good and was headed in the wrong direction. Sap had experienced a lot of frustration with Utah between contract stuff and not starting when he felt he deserved it. I don't believe his grudges were enough to make him leave if we had been a playoff team, but when you add all the past stuff to the frustration of being on a sucky/mediocre team for years, I believe he was ready for a change.
-
I realize why you snapped at TJF, but I think he does have a point about body language. You never know why a player might be acting a certain way, and I've never claimed Sap didn't have good reasons for how he felt, but I have to agree with TJF on one thing, that Paul's body language wasn't that of someone who liked his situation.
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I know you think Paul got a raw deal several times on the Jazz. As strongly as you feel about it, imagine how much stronger he might have felt. I think it was during the lockout year that I made up my mind that I didn't believe he'd be back if we weren't winning. Maybe it was a lucky guess, but to me I saw a player who was just doing his job, instead of playing a game he loved. That's not a knock on Sap, he just kinda seemed like he was somewhere he didn't want to be. It doesn't prove anything, but things did go the way I thought they would, coincidence or not.

 

[Doublea]

I fully expect the Hawks to make it to the NBA finals this year. Their team is legit.

I don't think Millsap is the answer for us though. Our front court of Hayward, Favors, and Gobert is looking really solid. I guess Millsap would be there instead of Favors and that could've been really nice too.

 

[NAOS]

Atlanta is that Utah team from two years ago, and we saw how that team fared in the West.

It's pretty exhausting to hear jazz fans spew trash about this Hawks team. This Hawks team is superior in EVERY SINGLE WAY to that jazz team two years ago. Your post misses the boat so badly I considered organizing a neg train.

Watch a few Hawks games before you make claims. Or, hell, just look at whom they've beat on the road. Pretty easy.

 

[freakazoid]

Atlanta is that Utah team from two years ago, and we saw how that team fared in the West.

Lol, not even close. Regardless of how far they go this year, that team is far superior to anything Utah has put on the floor since we had a healthy Deron. Hawks are legit.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Lol, not even close. Regardless of how far they go this year, that team is far superior to anything Utah has put on the floor since we had a healthy Deron. Hawks are legit.

they're probably as good as the Utah team back in 2008, honestly. Pretty different team though altogether. Very well-built-- their GM has really done a good job over the past 5 years.

 

[zbone]

Are you seriously trying to argue that a Boozer/Memo front court would be better than Garnett/Millsap ?

Cmon now.

Boozer/Memo/Millsap>Garnett/Millsap/who?

Garnett/Millsap duo is probably better on paper but you would have to build whole other team around them. 2008 Jazz with Garnett instead of Boozer/Millsap is worse than original 2008 Jazz.

 

[Joncolton]

I fully expect the Hawks to make it to the NBA finals this year. Their team is legit.

I don't think Millsap is the answer for us though. Our front court of Hayward, Favors, and Gobert is looking really solid. I guess Millsap would be there instead of Favors and that could've been really nice too.

The Hawks making the Finals would be amazing! It'd sure be fun to cheer for Jazz-East!

 

[Hotdog]

Boozer/Memo/Millsap>Garnett/Millsap/who?

Garnett/Millsap duo is probably better on paper but you would have to build whole other team around them. 2008 Jazz with Garnett instead of Boozer/Millsap is worse than original 2008 Jazz.

No.

That's just wrong.

The backup big isn't as important as the starting two bigs. But we still would have found a nice replacement. I guarantee it.

Millsap and Garnett is far superior to Memo and Boozer.


I don't understand what you are arguing. Are you trying to say that Garnett was not a great player in 2008?


Millsap > Boozer. It's not close. Boozer is/was a legit retard who couldn't play a lick of defense. Millsap is/was a legit two player who was far better than Boozer. Any love for Boozer is misguided.

Garnett > Memo. It's not close either. Garnett was a legit two great player who could shoot outside, even though you are trying to sell it as he couldn't. Both Garnett and Millsap could shoot.

 

[zbone]

No.

That's just wrong.

The backup big isn't as important as the starting two bigs. But we still would have found a nice replacement. I guarantee it.

Backup big is extremely important when you fight for playoff seed in the west and in the playoffs. With Garnett eating up salary of Boozer/Memo where do you find this nice replacement? In D-League?

Millsap and Garnett is far superior to Memo and Boozer.
I don't understand what you are arguing. Are you trying to say that Garnett was not a great player in 2008?

They are better defensively and far worse offensively. Single Garnett won't replace 33 PPG of Memo and Boozer. I don't see where scoring will be coming from.

Millsap > Boozer. It's not close. Boozer is/was a legit retard who couldn't play a lick of defense. Millsap is/was a legit two player who was far better than Boozer. Any love for Boozer is misguided.

Garnett > Memo. It's not close either. Garnett was a legit two great player who could shoot outside, even though you are trying to sell it as he couldn't. Both Garnett and Millsap could shoot.

Garnett wasn't a 3pt threat and you seriously forget how deadly Boozer/Deron combo was.
You are also forgetting Millsap's tendency to fade away after Al-Star break and his production also dipped in playoffs.

 

[freakazoid]

they're probably as good as the Utah team back in 2008, honestly. Pretty different team though altogether. Very well-built-- their GM has really done a good job over the past 5 years.

IMO, road record is the determining factor of when a team becomes elite. Hawks are 13-5 on the road this year. I don't remember exactly what our RR was that year, but I know we never won enough on the road to be considered elite. I think we were still losing about 2/3 of our road games, but I'm too lazy to look it up. I'm sure somebody will correct if I'm wrong. Anyway, you could make a case for this Hawks team being better than any Jazz team since Jarl Stalone.

 

[Gameface]

Honestly Millsap would still be here if it wasn't for Millsap. His actions on and off the court showed he wouldn't be here the following year. I have no problem letting Millsap go. We had two youg talented bigs, and the Jazz needed to see what they had in them. To call Favors overrated is ridiculous. He's been our best player to this point, and we are starting to see real improvement, plus it is looking like the twin towers of Favors and Gobert is showing huge potential, and think in two years both will be better then Millsap. I already feel Favors is better. Millsap is the better offensive player but Favors is greatly improving and his defense is light years ahead of Millsap.

The moral of the story is that the op is an idiot and uneducated when it comes to the business of the nba. Question is and I'm asking because I don't know... If we had kept Millsap would we still have Gobert X and Hood, and how developed would Favers be? Would we even have signed him to that very favorable contract? Would Hayward be in Charlotte?

I was glad we got rid of Millsap then, and love the desection the team is headed in now.

There's no way Millsap is an allstar in the west, and if Favors was in the east it's not out of the question he'd be playing better then he is now, and he's been pretty damn good and even better along side Gobert.

In my opinion it was great courage and foresight to let both Millsap and Al go. In two years this team is playoff bound. In 3-7 years we could be contenders.

Nice to see someone who can maintain an understanding of past perspectives. The OP sees Millsap doing well in Atlanta and forgets the series of events that led up to Millsap leaving.

I like Millsap. I wish him well.

 

[Hotdog]

Backup big is extremely important when you fight for playoff seed in the west and in the playoffs. With Garnett eating up salary of Boozer/Memo where do you find this nice replacement? In D-League?

They are better defensively and far worse offensively. Single Garnett won't replace 33 PPG of Memo and Boozer. I don't see where scoring will be coming from.

Garnett wasn't a 3pt threat and you seriously forget how deadly Boozer/Deron combo was.
You are also forgetting Millsap's tendency to fade away after Al-Star break and his production also dipped in playoffs.

You clearly forgetting who Kevin Garnett was, and how bad Boozer and Memos defense was.

 

[zbone]

You clearly forgetting who Kevin Garnett was, and how bad Boozer and Memos defense was.

I simply don't see them making difference against Pau/Bynum duo. Millsap would be abused over and over and over just as Memo/Boozer were and no offense to show for it.