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Game Thread Mar 14, 2022 08:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Bucks

Added to Calendar: 03-14-22

SoberasHotRod said:
When I was watching the replay there were at least 4 times when Donovan or Clarkson missed a wide open 3ft pass to Gobert that would have resulted in an easy dunk. They would make a nifty move and draw out Gobert's defender and then try and force something over both guys ignoring a wide open guaranteed basket. To be fair it was easy to see from my angle watching the play, but from their angle it would have maybe been a difficult pass.
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Oh my god this.
One of the worst games i have ever seen of guys (especially donovan) missing gobert for easy ones.


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LoPo said:
Which is great. It's unfortunate that he 99% relies on others for that type of efficiency.

It's not like we fed him in the post, he backed down his guy, and finished with authority. We litetally have to get him the ball in a very protected part of the court for him to score at that efficiency.


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Then get him the ball more in those positions. He's going to make the **** or get fouled most of the time. Or let him shoot jump shots. Anything. He has to get at least 10 attempts per game.
 
Katastrofica said:
This ain't gonna be better till we figure out what to do with royce please don't pass me the ball in forth o neal, and should i run in 3 defender or pull up 3 pointer from half field hero Donovan...
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This team has so many issues. First and foremost is team defense. We are a sieve and Rudy can only cover so much blatant crap. I think House could help us plug some of those holes, now he is having an MRI on his knee. I would say that our lack of size and athleticism in the backcourt and wing spots, and general inability to play perimeter D, is our #1 problem. It helps Whiteside and Rudy put up big numbers, does not help us win games. But since our opportunity to address this issue has passed for this year we are stuck with what we have. So, barring some defensive renaissance for the entire team, we are destined for an early playoff exit again.

Our #2 problem is our inability to continue playing with focus after we get a big lead. We give up way too many big leads and it is primarily due to lack of focus and effort. This leads to problem #3, and is tied to problem #1.

Then our #3 problem is our inability to close games. I am not even just saying clutch games, but in general. It is tied directly to #1 and #2, but it is a real problem that we abandon our vaunted offense right when we need it most to resort to hero ball and bad decision-making, mostly by DM. Conley needs the ball in his hands 80% of the time at the end of games. Look at how the Bucks handled the end of the game. Their legit MVP candidate hardly touched the ball. They trusted their primary play-maker, who feasted on our terrible back-court defense by the way, to lead them through their offense, with Giannis as a focal point, but not the ball-dominant scorer forcing **** against the teeth of the defense. He took his touches in the flow of the offense and through sheer hustle.

We could go on and on about this stuff, but these 3 things must be addressed in some way if we are to make any noise in the playoffs. Unfortunately problem #1 is the lynch-pin, hence its spot at the top of the list. By fixing #1 we would have had a strong impact on #2 and #3. But we lost our opportunity to do much there, so that makes doing anything with #2 or #3 that much harder.

And to me, a lot of this is on the FO and on Quin. The FO for not getting better pieces when they have had so many head-scratcher moves in recent years when better options were available, and Quin for not figuring out problem #2 and #3 to help us close out games.
 
fishonjazz said:
Oh my god this.
One of the worst games i have ever seen of guys (especially donovan) missing gobert for easy ones.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
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For lots of it they weren't even trying, as per usual. It wasn't until after halftime that Conley made an effort and it had nearly immediate benefits. Why they do not make that a primary focal point is beyond me. Apparently beyond Quin and most of the team too.
 
fishonjazz said:
He took about an 18 foot wing jumper! He missed it but just barely. It looked really good. Hopefully he takes a few more in the future.


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It was down and out, not a bad shot at all. Let him shoot 3-5 of those a game and he will start making them with some regularity. He just needs confidence. We have all seen the videos of him hitting those easily in practice, and we see it in warmups at the games too. No reason he can't take that shot when they back off of him. Favors had to develop that shot as well, he didn't have it when he first got to us, and it has been good for him for years now.
 
infection said:
Wife and I are in Paris so I skipped this one. Sounds like more late-game nonsense from Quin and DM? DM grew up watching the Carmelo Knicks and has always defended Carmelo. That lends to a reinforcement of the way a team is good is having “the guy” who will “put his team on his back” and “will them to victory.” It’s more of a nice theoretical storyline than it ever is a reality. But it plays out in how some guys approach the game. The problem that we have is that Quin is much less of his tough-guy reputation and coaches more how I imagine Michael Scott would. He wants everyone to think he’s nice and cool and gives the people he perceived as great way too much slack. Then he’ll have his irrational hatred for those he sees as Toby. What this creates is an absolutely awful combination where Don does his best Carmelo and the only guy who can stop it doesn’t want to piss him off. Quin is supposed to be this savant genius, but when it comes down to it, he’s got nothing and he defers all decision making to a 24 year old that looks up to Carmelo.
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IDK… he had one bad turnover but they had Holiday and Carter out there so it wasn’t easy to assess things with those guys on your ***. He had good looks at the basket… he definitely got fouled on a layup but then committed a dumb *** foul.

This team just has an anxiety that builds… it starts at its Royce passing up a wide *** open three and then you end up getting nothing on the possession remotely close to that look. Then they miss a couple free throws… then Rudy puts up a layup and gets fouled and the layup rims out… and it slowly builds until we are full on ******** the bed. I’m a vacuum the loss isn’t that big a deal. They honestly shouldn’t have won the game when they didn’t have a couple rotation players and weren’t shooting completely lights out. It’s just that end of the third you are up 11 I’m a very winnable situation and a couple fouls go the wrong way (refs were really sucky last night) and the mental makeup of this team is a cross between Eeyore and George Castanza… it’s just broken. I really think we lose to Dallas in the first round if we can’t figure out how to win close games again. I don’t think we were always great at it but we weren’t this ******.
 
LogGrad98 said:
This team has so many issues. First and foremost is team defense. We are a sieve and Rudy can only cover so much blatant crap. I think House could help us plug some of those holes, now he is having an MRI on his knee. I would say that our lack of size and athleticism in the backcourt and wing spots, and general inability to play perimeter D, is our #1 problem. It helps Whiteside and Rudy put up big numbers, does not help us win games. But since our opportunity to address this issue has passed for this year we are stuck with what we have. So, barring some defensive renaissance for the entire team, we are destined for an early playoff exit again.

Our #2 problem is our inability to continue playing with focus after we get a big lead. We give up way too many big leads and it is primarily due to lack of focus and effort. This leads to problem #3, and is tied to problem #1.

Then our #3 problem is our inability to close games. I am not even just saying clutch games, but in general. It is tied directly to #1 and #2, but it is a real problem that we abandon our vaunted offense right when we need it most to resort to hero ball and bad decision-making, mostly by DM. Conley needs the ball in his hands 80% of the time at the end of games. Look at how the Bucks handled the end of the game. Their legit MVP candidate hardly touched the ball. They trusted their primary play-maker, who feasted on our terrible back-court defense by the way, to lead them through their offense, with Giannis as a focal point, but not the ball-dominant scorer forcing **** against the teeth of the defense. He took his touches in the flow of the offense and through sheer hustle.

We could go on and on about this stuff, but these 3 things must be addressed in some way if we are to make any noise in the playoffs. Unfortunately problem #1 is the lynch-pin, hence its spot at the top of the list. By fixing #1 we would have had a strong impact on #2 and #3. But we lost our opportunity to do much there, so that makes doing anything with #2 or #3 that much harder.

And to me, a lot of this is on the FO and on Quin. The FO for not getting better pieces when they have had so many head-scratcher moves in recent years when better options were available, and Quin for not figuring out problem #2 and #3 to help us close out games.
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Well said man
 
This team is George Castanza… yeah I’m rewatching Seinfeld so maybe I’m stretching but when things are going right for George he gets over confident, lazy, sloppy… when things take a slight turn he freaks out and makes a super mess of things. He can’t get out of his own way.

1647362387999.gif
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
IDK… he had one bad turnover but they had Holiday and Carter out there so it wasn’t easy to assess things with those guys on your ***. He had good looks at the basket… he definitely got fouled on a layup but then committed a dumb *** foul.

This team just has an anxiety that builds… it starts at its Royce passing up a wide *** open three and then you end up getting nothing on the possession remotely close to that look. Then they miss a couple free throws… then Rudy puts up a layup and gets fouled and the layup rims out… and it slowly builds until we are full on ******** the bed. I’m a vacuum the loss isn’t that big a deal. They honestly shouldn’t have won the game when they didn’t have a couple rotation players and weren’t shooting completely lights out. It’s just that end of the third you are up 11 I’m a very winnable situation and a couple fouls go the wrong way (refs were really sucky last night) and the mental makeup of this team is a cross between Eeyore and George Castanza… it’s just broken. I really think we lose to Dallas in the first round if we can’t figure out how to win close games again. I don’t think we were always great at it but we weren’t this ******.
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Agreed. We have some mental stuff we have to overcome if we want to have a chance in the playoffs where we will need to win close games. I had a high school football coach who used to have us do visualization drills. Everybody hated them and thought they were pointless, but I don't know, maybe the Jazz need to do something like that.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This team is George Castanza… yeah I’m rewatching Seinfeld so maybe I’m stretching but when things are going right for George he gets over confident, lazy, sloppy… when things take a slight turn he freaks out and makes a super mess of things. He can’t get out of his own way.

View attachment 11826
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They need to start doing the opposite of every instinct they have.
 
infection said:
Wife and I are in Paris so I skipped this one. Sounds like more late-game nonsense from Quin and DM? DM grew up watching the Carmelo Knicks and has always defended Carmelo. That lends to a reinforcement of the way a team is good is having “the guy” who will “put his team on his back” and “will them to victory.” It’s more of a nice theoretical storyline than it ever is a reality. But it plays out in how some guys approach the game. The problem that we have is that Quin is much less of his tough-guy reputation and coaches more how I imagine Michael Scott would. He wants everyone to think he’s nice and cool and gives the people he perceived as great way too much slack. Then he’ll have his irrational hatred for those he sees as Toby. What this creates is an absolutely awful combination where Don does his best Carmelo and the only guy who can stop it doesn’t want to piss him off. Quin is supposed to be this savant genius, but when it comes down to it, he’s got nothing and he defers all decision making to a 24 year old that looks up to Carmelo.
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Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
 
infection said:
Wife and I are in Paris so I skipped this one. Sounds like more late-game nonsense from Quin and DM? DM grew up watching the Carmelo Knicks and has always defended Carmelo. That lends to a reinforcement of the way a team is good is having “the guy” who will “put his team on his back” and “will them to victory.” It’s more of a nice theoretical storyline than it ever is a reality. But it plays out in how some guys approach the game. The problem that we have is that Quin is much less of his tough-guy reputation and coaches more how I imagine Michael Scott would. He wants everyone to think he’s nice and cool and gives the people he perceived as great way too much slack. Then he’ll have his irrational hatred for those he sees as Toby. What this creates is an absolutely awful combination where Don does his best Carmelo and the only guy who can stop it doesn’t want to piss him off. Quin is supposed to be this savant genius, but when it comes down to it, he’s got nothing and he defers all decision making to a 24 year old that looks up to Carmelo.
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Lmao we got people coming around to my thought process regarding Mitchell
 
I watched the replay of the Gobert jump shot. I hate that's the shot he got so much. Too often the Gobert jump shot attempts are just random broken down plays were he awkwardly holds the ball for a few seconds before shooting. The Jazz need to be running plays to get him a jumper where they are putting him in his favorite spot (wherever that is) to shot from.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I watched the replay of the Gobert jump shot. I hate that's the shot he got so much. Too often the Gobert jump shot attempts are just random broken down plays were he awkwardly holds the ball for a few seconds before shooting. The Jazz need to be running plays to get him a jumper where they are putting him in his favorite spot (wherever that is) to shot from.
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He brings out the elbow jumper for the playoffs... first trip down the court just run the play shoot it in rhythm.
 
infection said:
Wife and I are in Paris so I skipped this one. Sounds like more late-game nonsense from Quin and DM? DM grew up watching the Carmelo Knicks and has always defended Carmelo. That lends to a reinforcement of the way a team is good is having “the guy” who will “put his team on his back” and “will them to victory.” It’s more of a nice theoretical storyline than it ever is a reality. But it plays out in how some guys approach the game. The problem that we have is that Quin is much less of his tough-guy reputation and coaches more how I imagine Michael Scott would. He wants everyone to think he’s nice and cool and gives the people he perceived as great way too much slack. Then he’ll have his irrational hatred for those he sees as Toby. What this creates is an absolutely awful combination where Don does his best Carmelo and the only guy who can stop it doesn’t want to piss him off. Quin is supposed to be this savant genius, but when it comes down to it, he’s got nothing and he defers all decision making to a 24 year old that looks up to Carmelo.
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I think the late game stuff is on Quin almost as much as the players. It just doesn't seem like there is a decent plan at times. The other night Conley is dribbling up top for like 12 seconds before any semblance of an action starts and then it becomes a basic pick running up against the clock.

Didn't have Bogey last night and the shots they got were actually fine... just didn't go down... the mental mistakes were more the turnover and foul. I actually think we are getting a little closer to functional... but the time for moral victories was like 2 years ago... they don't have to win all the close games (the Suns do but whatevs) but you have to win like 50% or you just aren't a contender.

The two things on display last night to me were - the anxiety we have... and the difference a basic, gettable player like Jevon Carter makes. His defense is just disruptive. House is a more useful player because of size and shooting imo... but Carter in the Forrest spot would offer a nice boost.
 
I'm not 100% sure why I looked this up:

Royce Clutch Shooting Regular Season and Playoffs (FGM/FGA, 3PM/3PA)

21-22 (0/8, 0/5)

20-21 (4/6, 3/4)

19-20 (3/7, 1/5)

18-19 (0/2, 0/2)

17-18 (1/1, 1/1)

Total (8/24, 5/17)
Pre 21-22 (8/16, (5/12)
 
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