Marijuana: Facts, Myths, and plain old Stupidity.

[SaltyDawg]

Yeah, catching a glimpse of dancing gnomes won't distract you from driving. Gotcha.

And I would absolutely call BS if someone is claiming they saw dancing gnomes from smoking weed. Either that weed was laced, they were having a flashback from some other drug, or they made the whole thing up.

People do make crap up like that because they think it makes them cool. See trout's posts for a perfect example of this. Good thing he didn't really bet his last nickel on that walking a straight line claim because he'd be pretty broke right now.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Evidence doesn't change the facts. Gotcha. Are you beginning to see why people do not take you seriously?

What evidence? Some post on a message board that 100 people called BS on? Is there a study anywhere that says marijuana makes you see dancing gnomes? I posted a couple studies that said driving after marijuana was fine (comparable to drinking a little but still well under the legal alcohol limit). Funny that a study would come to that conclusion if the person was really seeing dancing gnomes.


People take me seriously. I have positive reps from posts in this thread. Nice try at the ad hominem though.

 

[GVC]

I've found colors to be more vibrant, music to have more (almost physical) depth, and of course time to move in mysterious ways when high. Further, I have a more vivid imagination when I'm high, although it never leaks out into the real world. In fact, I've never heard anyone talk about seeing things that weren't actually there while under the influence of cannabis.

This has become a semantic argument. What is a hallucination?

 

[SaltyDawg]

I've found colors to be more vibrant, music to have more (almost physical) depth, and of course time to move in mysterious ways when high. Further, I have a more vivid imagination when I'm high, although it never leaks out into the real world. In fact, I've never heard anyone talk about seeing things that weren't actually there while under the influence of cannabis.

This has become a semantic argument. What is a hallucination?

Completely agreed. I think most pot smokers would agree with everything you have said here. I don't think any of that impairs driving though.

A hallucination to me (especially a wild hallucination, or epic hallucination) is something like what you get from acid or shrooms. You actually see things that aren't there like it's real.

Supposedly Alice in Wonderland was just some guy's acid trip and he wrote it into a book. No way does weed make you see things like that. THAT's an epic or wild hallucination that would absolutely impair your driving. Anyone claiming weed does that either smoked some laced stuff or is lying.

 

[Nate505]

According to the original article posted somewhere here by Carl Sagan, that guy had some wild hallucinations. I guess you would have to say Carl Sagan agrees with Trout. Kinda trumps most anyone around here since that article was posited as being proof positive that marijuana is the end-all be-all of existence by the pot-heads. I sure want people driving who think colors have come to life and **** like that. Sounds EXACTLY like what every single person who has binged on coffee to stay awake to study for finals has experienced, except of course the opposite.

You have to be ridiculously stoned for that stuff to happen. Which I have been (and frankly, I hate it and never smoke enough to get that high anymore). And at that point I'd wager you wouldn't have the capability to operate a vehicle regardless.

That being said as a guy who wants to see it legal on a pragmatic, compromising approach I don't care if there is some low (not no tolerance...no tolerance laws are just dumb in general for anything) tolerance law against driving while stoned, being it measured by whatever.

 

[Bronco70]

I've found colors to be more vibrant, music to have more (almost physical) depth, and of course time to move in mysterious ways when high. Further, I have a more vivid imagination when I'm high, although it never leaks out into the real world. In fact, I've never heard anyone talk about seeing things that weren't actually there while under the influence of cannabis.

This has become a semantic argument. What is a hallucination?

Completely agreed. I think most pot smokers would agree with everything you have said here. I don't think any of that impairs driving though.

To me this calls up obvious focus issues, which is exactly my concern in regard to operating a 2000 lb motor vehicle while high. As I have stated before, I don't use, so I cannot speak from first hand experience, but I have friends who do, and I would not want to ride with one of them driving high. Their attentiveness tends to wander.

This is just my two cents, from my experience, so I don't need to be told why I am wrong.

 

[GVC]

This is just my two cents, from my experience, so I don't need to be told why I am wrong.

I laughed.

 

[TroutBum]

Simple question for GVC: Have you ever been so blazed that you couldn't (maybe mentally more than physically) get up from your chair or bed? Been so ripped that you've staggered? Again, I'll bet any amount of money that you'll say yes to this. Is it not then accurate to say that having to pass a field sobriety test, which often includes walking a straight line, while blazed out of your mind might be hard? Add to the fact that you're probably ****ting your pants knowing that you're about to get busted for DUI and/or possession?

On another point, I think it's funny that Salty is bringing up Shrooms as a point of emphasis for hallucinations. I've eaten shrooms on maybe ten different occasions in my life, and while I was messed up out of my mind, I never "saw something that wasn't there". Colors would bleed around the edges, everything would sway (try bowling while on shrooms -- talk about a mind blow), and time would pretty much slow down to cold tar -- I never hallucinated. Go figure.

And lastly, just because I got "called out", I just want to point out a small issue w/ Salty's "cred":

...you're the only one who said it gives you wild hallucinations or makes you stagger like you're drunk (can't walk a straight line).

and

Not one person agreed with you on your "staggering like a drunk when high" (not able to walk a straight line) claim.

I'll pay you $100.00 if you can find a quote in this thread where I mentioned, "staggering like a drunk when high". Hell, I'll give you the money if you can find something that is even in the ball park of me alluding to that. What's awesome about you, Salty, is that the crap you made up to make your weak-*** argument was in quotations, while the actual thing I said was an aside put in parenthesis.

And just to finalize:

And I never said I thought Utah would be in the Rose Bowl.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?7023-SI-picks-Utes-to-win-PAC12-South./page3 Notice the title of the thread, "SI picks Utes to win PAC12 South.".

Just remember, blowing chunks in your opinion or not, the Pac 12 champ goes to the Rose Bowl. And maybe even the national championship, with the second place Pac 12 team going to the Rose Bowl.

I can see it's really going to hurt BYU fans when Utah is in the Pac 12 championship game while BYU is preparing for the nobody cares bowl.

Utah, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about any of that. If they win the Pac 12 Championship game, they are in the Rose Bowl. And if they lose the Pac 12 Championship game, they still go to the Rose Bowl if the Pac 12 Champion is in the national championship game (which is not a far fetched scenario at all).

All I was saying is that it's not too far fetched that Utah could lose the Pac 12 Championship game and still play in the Rose Bowl this year.

Utah sucked last night, no doubt. But Utah can still be in the Pac 12 championship game.

Utah is still very much in the running for the PAC 12 South. In fact, if Utah wins next week, the division is Utah's to lose.

If the Utes win the rest of the conference games they still have a great chance to be in the Pac 12 championship game.

I'm still very optimistic. Maybe some Ute fans don't realize this isn't the MWC anymore and the Utes are still in this thing? 2 losses in the MWC and the season would be over. But the Utes still have a legit chance to play in the Pac 12 championship game. And anything can happen in 1 game, so if the Utes make it to the Pac 12 championship game, the Rose Bowl is not out of the question.

And just for funsies, I stumbled on this gem and thought it pretty much sums you up perfectly:

If neither team fixes any problems, Utah probably wins but doesn't blow them out. If Utah fixes their one problem, and USC doesn't fix anything, Utah blows them out. If USC fixes all of their problems and Utah doesn't fix anything (the least likely scenario) then USC probably wins but not a blowout. If Utah fixes their one problem and USC fixes some of their problems but not all of them (the most likely scenario) then depending on what problems USC actually fixes, Utah wins, probably wins comfortably and possibly a blowout.

Anyway, this is moot. I expect a lengthy response about how you never actually SAID that Utah WOULD be in the Rose Bowl and/or an injury related excuse.

 

[freakazoid]

BYU would probably be a better team if they DID smoke pot.

Just sayin.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Simple question for GVC: Have you ever been so blazed that you couldn't (maybe mentally more than physically) get up from your chair or bed? Been so ripped that you've staggered? Again, I'll bet any amount of money that you'll say yes to this. Is it not then accurate to say that having to pass a field sobriety test, which often includes walking a straight line, while blazed out of your mind might be hard? Add to the fact that you're probably ****ting your pants knowing that you're about to get busted for DUI and/or possession?

On another point, I think it's funny that Salty is bringing up Shrooms as a point of emphasis for hallucinations. I've eaten shrooms on maybe ten different occasions in my life, and while I was messed up out of my mind, I never "saw something that wasn't there". Colors would bleed around the edges, everything would sway (try bowling while on shrooms -- talk about a mind blow), and time would pretty much slow down to cold tar -- I never hallucinated. Go figure.

And lastly, just because I got "called out", I just want to point out a small issue w/ Salty's "cred":

and

I'll pay you $100.00 if you can find a quote in this thread where I mentioned, "staggering like a drunk when high". Hell, I'll give you the money if you can find something that is even in the ball park of me alluding to that. What's awesome about you, Salty, is that the crap you made up to make your weak-*** argument was in quotations, while the actual thing I said was an aside put in parenthesis.

And just to finalize:

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?7023-SI-picks-Utes-to-win-PAC12-South./page3 Notice the title of the thread, "SI picks Utes to win PAC12 South.".

And just for funsies, I stumbled on this gem and thought it pretty much sums you up perfectly:

Anyway, this is moot. I expect a lengthy response about how you never actually SAID that Utah WOULD be in the Rose Bowl and/or an injury related excuse.

LOL, let me start with this:

Simple question for GVC: Have you ever been so blazed that you couldn't (maybe mentally more than physically) get up from your chair or bed? Been so ripped that you've staggered? Again, I'll bet any amount of money that you'll say yes to this.

I'll pay you $100.00 if you can find a quote in this thread where I mentioned, "staggering like a drunk when high". Hell, I'll give you the money if you can find something that is even in the ball park of me alluding to that.

Now let me also say that if you are talking about not being able to walk a straight line during a field sobriety test, you MUST be talking about staggering like a drunk. If not, then what the heck are you talking about? And then why did you specifically mention staggering in your question to GVC, and say you'd bet any amount that he'd say yes? So you were talking about staggering and failing sobriety tests, but you didn't mean staggering like a drunk? lol, yeah, right. Now I'D be willing to bet any amount that most people would agree the first quote is certainly "in the ball park" of you "alluding to" staggering like a drunk.

Now, I know this may be hard for you to understand, but saying Utah would compete for the Pac 12 South is NOT the same as predicting them to be in the Rose Bowl. You do realize that even if Utah actually won the South division, they still would probably not be in the Rose Bowl this season, right? Just because I said it was technically possible doesn't mean I was betting on it to happen.

You do realize that I was dead on in that Utah/USC prediction, right? Utah didn't fix anything, USC fixed all their issues, and USC won on the last play of the game.

Nice try. You're totally reaching in this thread and you continually expose yourself. You continually try to "win" debates with cheap shots at posters (as I said in my first post in this thread) but you're even failing at that right now.

By the way, I agree that at some point you won't be able to get off the couch if you smoke way too much weed. I have said that from the start. But like I also said, if you're smoking so much you can't get up off the couch, you won't be walking out to the car and driving anywhere.

 

[TroutBum]

Thank you for not letting me down. ^^

 

[freakazoid]

Why are you pointing to the thread title?

Frackin' shroomhead.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Thank you for not letting me down. ^^

What a great prediction it was. You make a post calling me out with a bunch of BS that isn't true, and at the end predict that I would set the record straight. Wow, what a genius you are.

 

[LogGrad98]

What evidence? Some post on a message board that 100 people called BS on? Is there a study anywhere that says marijuana makes you see dancing gnomes? I posted a couple studies that said driving after marijuana was fine (comparable to drinking a little but still well under the legal alcohol limit). Funny that a study would come to that conclusion if the person was really seeing dancing gnomes.


People take me seriously. I have positive reps from posts in this thread. Nice try at the ad hominem though.

What 100 people? It was just you. Everyone on those forums were throwing in their own experiences that were similar.

 

[SaltyDawg]

What 100 people? It was just you. Everyone on those forums were throwing in their own experiences that were similar.

No man, they weren't. Again, I am not disputing that closing your eyes and seeing lights is possible, if not common. I am saying an "epic hallucination" (such as Alice in Wonderland) is not.

So when someone says they closed their eyes and saw a lightshow, my only disagreement is if they call it an "epic hallucination" and say it would impair their driving. If someone says they thought they were in Alice in Wonderland, I call BS. And that is basically what happened in those threads.

 

[LogGrad98]

So you disagree that they experienced what they said they experienced. You don't believe the eye-witnesses. Hardly refutes the point. Disbelieving the evidence does nothing to prove the evidence wrong. All that does it set up an endless loop of "I did so have hallucinations" "did not" "did so" "did not". Care to point to anyone else that refutes ABSOLUTELY that hallucinate can occur while on weed? Or any studies or anything more credible than "salty said so"? Not even any of your fellow pot heads here have gone to that length. Multiple first-hand accounts > Salty's opinion.

 

[SaltyDawg]

So you disagree that they experienced what they said they experienced. You don't believe the eye-witnesses. Hardly refutes the point. Disbelieving the evidence does nothing to prove the evidence wrong. All that does it set up an endless loop of "I did so have hallucinations" "did not" "did so" "did not". Care to point to anyone else that refutes ABSOLUTELY that hallucinate can occur while on weed? Or any studies or anything more credible than "salty said so"? Not even any of your fellow pot heads here have gone to that length. Multiple first-hand accounts > Salty's opinion.

First off, I disagree with anyone claiming they are having "epic hallucinations" from smoking weed. They may very well be having hallucinations, but it is likely due to either the weed being laced or flashbacks from other drugs that actually cause hallucinations (as several people in those threads said). Or they may just be flat out lying. That also happens. If people do drugs because they think it will make them cool, you better believe people also lie about it because they think it will make them cool.

Second, I posted links to some studies that said moderate to heavy doses of marijuana 1: did not cause any impairment in driving that could be detected by police officers and driving instructors, and 2: was similar to someone driving after drinking very little (still well under the legal limit). The study would not have come to this conclusion if people were experiencing Alice in Wonderland after smoking weed. This is actual "evidence" and not just some clown trying to be cool with stories of being higher than everyone else. And again, I am not disputing stories of closing your eyes and seeing a lightshow and things like that. I am saying those are not "epic hallucinations" and would not impair driving either.

Also, "fellow potheads" (your term, not mine) absolutely did too agree with me. see these quotes:

Your claim to "awesome hallucinations" does make you sound pretty bogus. Marijuana doesn't make you hallucinate.

I interpret "awesome hallucinations" as full on hallucinations. As in, you can literally see something in full. I guess people could interpret blurred vision, paranoia affects, and closed eyed pattern effects (close your eyes and seeing tie-dye type patterns) as "hallucinations", but I wouldn't.

With all that said, I don't consider my experience under the influence of cannabis to be particularly hallucinogenic. I also don't think I'd have much trouble walking a straight line.

 

[LogGrad98]

So one actually agreed with your stand, that it DOES NOT create hallucinations. The other just said his weren't full-on hallucinations. Of course there is still the issue of what is a hallucination since they both agreed you can get some visual effects, which in the strictest sense is still a hallucination. Yet there are page upon page of examples of first-hand reports of hallucinations online due to marijuana use.

Also, the link you posted was addressing ability to drive, not whether or not hallucinations were POSSIBLE. Of course it is not mentioned there. Give me a break. Here is one that says it can cause hallucinations:

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/mari.html

In high doses, marijuana can cause:

hallucinations
delusions
impaired memory
disorientation.

 

[SaltyDawg]

So one actually agreed with your stand, that it DOES NOT create hallucinations. The other just said his weren't full-on hallucinations. Of course there is still the issue of what is a hallucination since they both agreed you can get some visual effects, which in the strictest sense is still a hallucination. Yet there are page upon page of examples of first-hand reports of hallucinations online due to marijuana use.

Also, the link you posted was addressing ability to drive, not whether or not hallucinations were POSSIBLE. Of course it is not mentioned there. Give me a break. Here is one that says it can cause hallucinations:

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/mari.html

Is it possible to get a closed eye lightshow from marijuana? Yes, and I have never disputed this. Do some people define this as a hallucination? Probably. Would this impair driving? No. Would this be considered an "epic hallucination"? Of course not. Is it theoretically possible to get an "epic hallucination" from weed? I doubt it, but even if it's possible it's so rare that it's not worth making laws to save us all from it.

 

[Agoxlea]

I'm jealous of all these people that have had hallucinations. I have tried Salvia once and definitely hallucinated. I thought I could see the concept of irony. That was pretty enjoyable but the rest was miserable. The physiological effects were noticeable and pretty frightening. I definitely personally haven't had anything close to a hallucination from weed though. You guys are either really lucky or have a pretty loose interpretation of hallucinating.