GVC
Well-Known Member
Because Jefferson coming off the bench isn't an option?
Millsap willing to come off the bench.
- Thread starter BabyPeterzz
- Start date
cctrackstar
Well-Known Member
I say let's play a few games and see what his new strength and athleticism brings him. From all reports, he worked his butt off this offseason, and should have better quickness and vertical. This could fix all of his problems, and make him our best big on the floor this season. Favors has talent, but little experience. My opinion is that Jefferson is our best option in the paint this year. That's not to say that Favors won't pass him up eventually, but then he'd be our second best big.
By the way, what's with the love affair with Millsap? He doesn't score that many points and doesn't rebound near as good as he used to. Just because he'd start on a bad lottery team doesn't mean that he deserves to start when there is someone better than him on the team. This is the NBA. As a player you work your butt off to get what you get. I'm pretty sure that Ronnie Price works his butt off too, but that doesn't mean he should start over Steve Nash! There are no guarantees in the NBA, and if another team wants to give us good value for Millsap, another team who would start him, great. Until then, he comes off the bench behind better talent, and when his contract expires he can go elsewhere, or re-sign.
(heartless, i know)
jazzfan1971
Well-Known Member
Millsap is better suited to coming off the bench anyway. Bring him off the bench, give him 30 minutes and I think everyone is happy.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Did you just compare Paul Millsap to Ronnie Price?
Keep in mind that Jefferson only scored 1.3 more points per game than Millsap last season, while taking 3+ more shots than him per game. Read that again.
Sap is also a much better team player on both ends, actually runs the floor, and can fit MANY roles. The second unit last season was pretty much useless in half court sets, and relied on CJ Miles in isos a lot. What happens if those isos are instead taken by Al Jefferson against reserve big men? I'd guess his average (at best) efficiency is improved on drastically, and the gains on the second unit are far more than the losses on the first unit. Jefferson probably doesn't complement good players much better than he complements bad players (if at all). Millsap likely complements good players a lot better than he complements bad players.
Also, although many will dismiss these stats entirely, Millsap generally scores quite well in adjusted +/-, and was 10th in the entire league last season.
Millsap starting has nothing to do with charity. He was Utah's best player last season.
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cctrackstar
Well-Known Member
Sure, I am a Ronnie Price fan, and he has the same problem Millsap has, he's really a 2 but he's too short to play it, so he either plays badly at the 1 or comes off the bench at the 2, where he does alright for his talent level. Think about it, every word is true.
As far as his numbers compared to Al, again let's wait and see how Al does this year with a leaner body and better knowledge of the offence, and lastly, remember he had just come off a serious injury and may not have been 100%
GVC
Well-Known Member
It's true of Price, but not of Millsap. Millsap played better than Jefferson last season. If we're giving up on Millsap, we should probably be giving up on Jefferson too.
Isn't it possible that Millsap comes back more improved than Jefferson? Wouldn't past history lead you to believe that that's more likely than Jefferson coming back more improved than Millsap?
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TheSilencer1313
Well-Known Member
shadler
Well-Known Member
If Favors don't start I am going to be pissed. The guy has earned that spot hands down. Only way I want sap starting is at the 3. Can't teach length which is what has killed the Jazz over and over again.
cctrackstar
Well-Known Member
Again with the love affair with Millsap. Al spent the entire offseason in Santa Barbara working on his vertical and agility, yet Millsap is a better worker? Nobody has said anything whatsoever this training camp about Millsap's improvements, yet he's a better worker? Many coaches and players have mentioned that Al has improved his speed and quickness, yet Millsap is a better worker?
Geez, get over the guy.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I would hope Ty plans to experiment with all possible combos including Al coming off the second unit. But in general, I'm pretty leery of any starting unit that doesn't have a reliable post scorer. A Sap/Favors combo means he'll get defended by a lot of 5's with opposing teams forcing the action through Favors. Al can score on 5's. Sap would struggle with that. Now if Favors develops so rapidly that he becomes a threat in the post, a Sap/Favors combo could be pretty effective.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Millsap has proven it year in and year out. Al hasn't. I'm pretty sure that training facility in Santa Barbara is the one used by Sap every year. Some of us just want to see the improvements on the court from Al. We expect Millsap to come back in better shape, having added something new to his game because it's what he does every year.
Do you not remember how fat and out of shape Big Al was when he came over last season?
Do you not remember how fat and out of shape Big Al was when he came over last season?
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Favors should start just for the fact that he is the future of this team. Also Jefferson isn't a true center and he needs some length next to him. Millsap is a dependable scorer and we need that off the bench. Especially since Kanter is the other big off the bench.
Favors will get into foul trouble and have some scoring nights where he isn't dependable. Playing him next to Jefferson will help that out a lot.
We don't need an undersized Jefferson and an undersized Millsap on the floor together. I do think Millsap deserves 30 minutes a game still. But Favor should start and he will get better as the year goes on.
We are a better team with Jefferson and Favors starting and Millsap's scoring and hustle off the bench.
Favors will get into foul trouble and have some scoring nights where he isn't dependable. Playing him next to Jefferson will help that out a lot.
We don't need an undersized Jefferson and an undersized Millsap on the floor together. I do think Millsap deserves 30 minutes a game still. But Favor should start and he will get better as the year goes on.
We are a better team with Jefferson and Favors starting and Millsap's scoring and hustle off the bench.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Ya, we'll have to wait and see, and I also hope Ty is open to experimenting, especially since this team is not going to be contending this season. I think we both expect Sap and Al to be starters when the season opens, which is probably a good idea, especially if Favors still has foul issues.
With all that said, I'm far more concerned with Raja starting and getting significant minutes. If Ty is convinced CJ or Hayward should come off the bench, I'd prefer Sap at the 3 with Hayward/CJ at the 2 than Hayward/CJ at the 3 and Raja at the 2.
Favors earned the starting spot by being long and what else? I'm not sure your definition of "earned" is the same as anyone else's.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
You need to be realistic. The Jazz will NEVER bench Jefferson. This is a business not a high school basketball team. Jefferson is getting paid 14 million this year. No reason to even talk about it. The Jazz will showcase him to trade him or continue with him as the starting center for the next 2 years. You don't bench a guy making 14 million a year who is still valuable and helping the team. Yes he has his faults. I am not a huge supporter even. But benching him will never happen.
We should be looking at who complements each other best off the bench and starting. Not who deserves to start because of hard work.
You're going to base your argument on PRESS, not history? Some people don't need to publicize their efforts, and if you believe work makes you better, history shows Millsap isn't in the same category as Jefferson.
If publicizing how hard you worked in the offseason meant anything, half of the NBA would be all-stars every year, and CJ Miles would be MVP.
shadler
Well-Known Member
Do you know the record when Favors is in the starting line up compared with sap? Have not lost a game yet. If you think sap has great D then by all means keep putting him in the starting spot and see how the teams like lakers do against the jazz with their size. He got killed last year over and over.
I suppose the term "sample size" means absolutely nothing to you.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Al might be better off the bench. When he's playing with talented players, those players' talents are wasted when Al has the ball, and Al's talents are wasted when those other players have the ball. That is, Al doesn't play very well without the ball, and he's not very good at making players around him better. He's a perfect option on an anemic second unit when half court sets lead to nothing. You can always just dump the ball into him and let him go to work.
Sap is the type of player who can complement talented players very well. If you need outside shooting, he can give you some of that. Transition O, facilitating from the high post, PnR, working from the baseline and short corner? He's proficient in all those spots too. His talents are somewhat wasted when playing with lesser players. If Favors can operate adequately from the low post, Sap's going to complement him a lot better than Jefferson will.
It's entirely possible that the Jazz would be better off with Sap starting and Al coming off the bench. They'll both be getting 30+ minutes anyway.