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Millsap's future impacts Jazz draft strategy

jazzman12 said:
I've seen those numbers, and I think it's neat that you're basing 100% of your argument off of them, but I don't think they tell the whole story.

I expected Big Al to have a somewhat inefficient year during his 1st season in Utah. Couple that with the fact that he lost his HC and Point Guard in the process and I'm not suprised at all by those numbers.

I still think he's trending upwards. He's one more season away from that nasty knee injury, and he set career high marks in assists and blocks while also achieving a career low in turnovers last season.
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For sure. I think it was pretty obvious when he started the season he had a ton of bad habits. I think he showed progress as the season went on. I expect him to average 20 and 10 this upcoming year while doing it efficiently and for the team to challenge for a fringe playoff seeding. He will, at the very least, raise his trade value.
 
JohnStockalypse said:
That "top talent" of Kanter has never been tested against the top US players in any meaningful way. That scares the crap out of me.
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its been tested against future US top players last year. And it will be tested this year against the current top players. Be patient
 
Jefferson took quite a few games to get comfortable with the Jazz system and teammates, but after the all-star break he looked increasingly comfortable and his consistancy greatly improved. That wasobvious. I would be very surprised if he were traded or moved to the bench.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Using Millsap to move up to grab Williams makes sense for Utah for the same reason it doesn't make sense for Minnesota: We'd be making room for Williams while Millsap just logjams the 3/4 for Minnesota already.

I would consider moving Millsap to get Irving though. However, again, I don't know why Cleveland does that if they give a **** about Hickson or Jamison.

I really like Irving. He seems the most likely to be a franchise-player in this draft and that's why he's generally viewed as the #1 pick. I really like Millsap too and would hate to part with him, that's how much I like Irving.
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There is no way I do this. I am not as high on Irving as you are. Again, if you look at Irving's #'s and Knight's, they are basically identical. The only difference is shooting %'s, but Irving's are inflated due to the lack in competition he faced. I do think Irving is better than Knight, but not giving up Millsap better.
 
green said:
There is no way I do this. I am not as high on Irving as you are.
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I didn't know that.

But just to be sure I didn't know that, do you want to give us a statistical comparison that proves the point you're trying argue against for the 20th time? Make sure you pretend that shooting percentages don't matter, that's key.
 
That's funny. You are witty. Prove me wrong. And don't say you've seen Irving. He played a handful of games at full strength. Nobody has seen Irving. I don't even think he has done any workouts yet. All we have is meager stats on him and they are strikingly identical to Knight's. Prove me wrong.
 
JohnStockalypse said:
In a ****ing meaningless all star game. Child please.
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Ok granted most all star games are meaningless. Nevertheless it does give you a gauge of the level of your play against your peers at a given moment in time.

NBA All Star Games MVP over the past 10 years:

2001 Allen Iverson
2002 Kobe Bryant
2003 Kevin Garnett
2004 Shaquille O'Neal
2005 Allen Iverson
2006 LeBron James
2007 Kobe Bryant
2008 LeBron James
2009 Kobe Bryant
2009 Shaquille O'Neal
2010 Dwyane Wade
2011 Kobe Bryant

Nuff said.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Ok granted most all star games are meaningless. Nevertheless it does give you a gauge of the level of your play against your peers at a given moment in time.

NBA All Star Games MVP over the past 10 years:

2001 Allen Iverson
2002 Kobe Bryant
2003 Kevin Garnett
2004 Shaquille O'Neal
2005 Allen Iverson
2006 LeBron James
2007 Kobe Bryant
2008 LeBron James
2009 Kobe Bryant
2009 Shaquille O'Neal
2010 Dwyane Wade
2011 Kobe Bryant

Nuff said.
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You can't be ****in' serious.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Ok granted most all star games are meaningless. Nevertheless it does give you a gauge of the level of your play against your peers at a given moment in time.

NBA All Star Games MVP over the past 10 years:

2001 Allen Iverson
2002 Kobe Bryant
2003 Kevin Garnett
2004 Shaquille O'Neal
2005 Allen Iverson
2006 LeBron James
2007 Kobe Bryant
2008 LeBron James
2009 Kobe Bryant
2009 Shaquille O'Neal
2010 Dwyane Wade
2011 Kobe Bryant

Nuff said.
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So what you are saying is the biggest douchebags win the MVP of the All-Star game?
 
jazzman12 said:
I've seen those numbers, and I think it's neat that you're basing 100% of your argument off of them, but I don't think they tell the whole story.

I expected Big Al to have a somewhat inefficient year during his 1st season in Utah. Couple that with the fact that he lost his HC and Point Guard in the process and I'm not suprised at all by those numbers.

I still think he's trending upwards. He's one more season away from that nasty knee injury, and he set career high marks in assists and blocks while also achieving a career low in turnovers last season.
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I completely agree. What makes me pretty high on Big Al is that he played much better after the all star break when he was in better shape and more comfortable with his role here. He had a month where he was averaging something like 25 and 12 with very good efficiency. If he works hard this offseason like he says he will, there is no reason to think he won't have his best season yet.
 
Dwill_PwnasaurasRex said:
So what you are saying is the biggest douchebags win the MVP of the All-Star game?
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Not exactly, just that the biggest douchebags wins championships - 13 all together in that list if I'm not mistaken.

Seriously though, we all know you can't totally disregard all star games as quote - ****ing meaningless - un-quote.
 
LOL; when as the last NBA all-star game where anybody actually played defense? I can't remember myself... I think most agree this ain't exactly the strongest draft. So we need to chose especially wisely when we get on the clock...
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Seriously though, we all know you can't totally disregard all star games as quote - ****ing meaningless - un-quote.
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Yes we can. The stats are meaningless and the MVP is a popularity contest. The All star game.....Hell any all star game is 100% completely worthless in any and all ways.
 
Favors Flave said:
If you were Big Al, who would you honestly trust to pass the ball to with the lineup that was mainly in until the end of the year
PG- Watson- Not much of a threat (Harris was injured most of the time)
SG- Bell- Are you kidding, I wouldn't trust him
SF- Ak- Never trust him
PF- Millsap- I would trust him but he never really made himself available
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AK and Bell barely played toward the end of the season. Millsap, Hayward and Favors were far better options, and should have had more opportunities, but, as has been the case his whole career, Al doesn't do a good job of finding guys.

And, to turn your question around, if you were the othe rmembers of the Jazz when Big Al was on the court, would you do a lot of cutting, knowing that Big Al wasn't going to pass, and that you'd then likely end up only cluttering the paint and making his job harder?
 
jazzman12 said:
I've seen those numbers, and I think it's neat that you're basing 100% of your argument off of them, but I don't think they tell the whole story.

I expected Big Al to have a somewhat inefficient year during his 1st season in Utah. Couple that with the fact that he lost his HC and Point Guard in the process and I'm not suprised at all by those numbers.

I still think he's trending upwards. He's one more season away from that nasty knee injury, and he set career high marks in assists and blocks while also achieving a career low in turnovers last season.
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So you're saying my whole argument is that Big Al doesn't draw fouls, doesn't score at a decent enough clip and can't pass? I'd say that's a pretty damning argument in and of itself. If you add that he's terrible running the floor, and seems to struggle playing team basketball on both ends, I'd say Big Al has a lot of ground to make up.

Look, I'm just challenging the Big Al nut-huggers. Big Al has been almost 100% potential his whole career. When he gets in shape, stops shying away from contact, and shows some semblance of BBIQ, I'll be on board 100% . Could it happen? Absolutely, but I see no reason I should discount 7 disappointing years just because Big Al happens to be on the team I cheer for.
 
GVC said:
AK and Bell barely played toward the end of the season. Millsap, Hayward and Favors were far better options, and should have had more opportunities, but, as has been the case his whole career, Al doesn't do a good job of finding guys.

And, to turn your question around, if you were the othe rmembers of the Jazz when Big Al was on the court, would you do a lot of cutting, knowing that Big Al wasn't going to pass, and that you'd then likely end up only cluttering the paint and making his job harder?
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Notice how I said the lineup that was mainly in until the end of the year. When Hayward and Favors were in it seemed like he was more effective and had actual options of who to pass to. When Hayward and Favors started to play a lot more the last 7 games, Big Al averaged 4 assists a game. I won't consider that a black hole.
 
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