More death threats -- Woman take video of her walk through New York

[LogGrad98]

OB, I guess I'm not too surprised that you would be so socially clueless as to basic interaction among human beings within a society. I do feel bad for you though. Have you ever searched for reviews of your teaching on the web? Some interesting insights there relevant to this discussion especially when it comes to cues and signals.

 

[fishonjazz]

Best commentary on the subject by far. Excellent use of the internet:

[video=youtube_share;gEAC7nl5n2g]https://youtu.be/gEAC7nl5n2g

Lol.
She fine

 

[fishonjazz]

Non verbal cues. Lol.

We are not animals. Humans have the ability to communicate verbally for a reason

 

[GVC]

I've got bad news for you, GVC. You are not the center of the universe. Expecting random strangers to take time out of their thought and their lives in order to exchange strokes with you, and be cheerful about it, is anti-social behavior.

I neither claim to be the center of the universe nor expect random strangers to take time "to exchange strokes with me". That said, if I'm out in public and someone politely says "hi" or "good morning" to me, and I choose to fly off the handle, the fault is mine. I'm also not willing to excuse myself for ignoring panhandlers or those selling **** on the street because these people are also part of my community, and deserve to be recognized as such.

In a public space, I expect to encounter other people. Sometimes they're friendly and helpful, other times they're rude and hinder me in my daily tasks. Still, they deserve my recognition and respect. I think fostering an open, friendly, communicative society is a good thing. In doing so, we are more protected from harmful anti-social behavior and people. That you think otherwise reflects incredibly poorly on you, and I'd advise you to stay the **** away from any city where I live.

 

[One Brow]

OB, I guess I'm not too surprised that you would be so socially clueless as to basic interaction among human beings within a society. I do feel bad for you though. Have you ever searched for reviews of your teaching on the web? Some interesting insights there relevant to this discussion especially when it comes to cues and signals.

I'm not overly surprised you're self-centered and think that other people owe you positive experiences, or the problem is with them. I feel sorry for the people you accidentally impose upon and then blame for their reaction to your imposition.

As a matter of fact, I have searched for such reviews. I also read the evaluations every semester, and sometimes go back and read older semesters. If you have any sites in particular you would suggest, feel free to suggest them. I can always use more constructive criticism. Some of my old evaluations are so awful they could be evaluations of you, I would think. The more recent ones do show an improvement, because I prefer to alter myself when I am aware of a problem, rather than assume others are to blame. I suppose since you seem to think you have no flaws in your social interactions, this isn't an activity you undertake.

I mean, you did want to make this personal, right?

 

[Stoked]

Wow...

You often have good points and arguments One Brow. But you are appearing increasingly extreme on this issue.

 

[♪alt13]

I don't recall reading that request before. I'll try to remember it.

I certainly would not want to be discourteous.

I don't know anyone who's good at reading minds, and more to the point, I don't know of any post in here where any poster has asked any other poster read minds at all, regardless of their proficiency. To cast the debate in those terms is dishonest tactic, and in particular when you ignore the actual suggestions of the person to whom you are responding, It makes it seem that you have no reasonable retort, so you must exaggerate your opponents position in order to defeat it. Since you feel courtesy is so important (historically as well as in this discussion), how about you try being courteous enough to limit your opposition to the actual suggestions that have been brought forth multiple times?

I don't know what degree of knowledge by you mean by "know". It's easy enough to read non-verbal signals and have a decent idea that a greeting will be welcome or unwelcome, this is a skill learned by almost everyone; we rely on non-verbal every day. While I'm skeptical that fully 93% of communication is non-verbal, I would expect this number to be close to half. If you were truly incapable of non-verbal communication, you would be living a very lonely life, probably incapable of passing a class or holding down any sort of real-world job. In fact, I would venture that, even if you were not certain, you had exchanged enough non-verbal cues with your not-yet-wife that, upon actually speaking to her, you had a fairly reasonable expectation that she would respond. By contrast, the woman in this video is giving several non-verbal cues that she is disinterested, and the men are not swayed. The effect is an impression that men are free to invade a woman private sphere at any time they choose.

No one asked you to do anything for womankind, except engage in simple politeness and respect (which is something you should do as much for yourself as for anyone), a trait you have no qualms asking for, but seem disinclined to extend to others.

I think all of them should so more respect.

You're wrong. She had not even noticed me and was sitting quietly by herself. She was wearing jeans and a fall jacket. The only skin that was showing was her hands and face. She looked like my type so I initiated a verbal conversation to get her attention. I guess I could have bent over in front of her or stared at her but I thought that kind of non verbal communication would just be creepy.

More broadly, people that are lonely display very similar body language to people that want to be left alone. The only way I know how to figure out which the person is feeling is to greet them and gauge their response.

The father figure remark is how I see your general position towards women. I don't think you give them enough credit and far too often think that they need your protection from every little thing in the world.

What is it that makes me impolite or disrespectful? Is it that I disagree with you?

 

[GVC]

Wow...

You often have good points and arguments One Brow. But you are appearing increasingly extreme on this issue.

He's also been a complete *** repeatedly.

 

[Stoked]

He's also been a complete *** repeatedly.

With comments where he calls others self centered, the center of the universe or implies that they are disrespectful and rude for not holding his opinion I would agree.

 

[One Brow]

I neither claim to be the center of the universe nor expect random strangers to take time "to exchange strokes with me".

The former was hyperbole, the latter is exactly your expectation, to the degree that you label anyone who does not exchange strokes in an appropriate way as "anti-social".

That said, if I'm out in public and someone politely says "hi" or "good morning" to me, and I choose to fly off the handle, the fault is mine. I'm also not willing to excuse myself for ignoring panhandlers or those selling **** on the street because these people are also part of my community, and deserve to be recognized as such.

That's fine for the standards you set for yourself when other people interfere with your day. What's lacking so far is your realization that not everyone who holds to these standards, nor is it necessary for them to do so.

Also, once again I am seeing a completely different scenario being presented than the one under discussion. Everyone is claiming how bad I am with social cues, but then they can't tell the difference in social context between some one walking down the street and someone who is panhandling or selling something. I mean, I assume that mistake is an honest one, the other option would be that you all are deliberately altering the argument because you don't feel you have a strong enough position to discuss the actual topic. So, I am getting responses about workplaces, parties, panhandlers, and vendors, as opposed to people just walking down the street.

In a public space, I expect to encounter other people. Sometimes they're friendly and helpful, other times they're rude and hinder me in my daily tasks. Still, they deserve my recognition and respect.

I agree they deserve your respect. What's so great about your recognition that, even when they don't want it, they should have it, regardless? On the other hand, if you don't mean that people should receive your recognition when they don't want it, why do you think you are disagreeing with me at all on this issue, other than that I am who I am?

I think fostering an open, friendly, communicative society is a good thing. In doing so, we are more protected from harmful anti-social behavior and people.

I think such fostering needs to include the respect that allows for people to occasionally feel closed off without putting undue pressure on them to alter their mood. I'd be surprised if you didn't, frankly.

That you think otherwise reflects incredibly poorly on you, and I'd advise you to stay the **** away from any city where I live.

Why? What will happen if I go there? If we met in person, we'd probably get along quite well.

 

[One Brow]

Wow...

You often have good points and arguments One Brow. But you are appearing increasingly extreme on this issue.

It does appear that way. People are reacting more and more extremely to my position, and naturally, my responses are interpreted more extremely in return.

However, my point has been relatively fixed throughout; taking to time to evaluate whether a person (say sitting on a bus or walking down the street) might be interested in a conversation before you start talking to them is a matter of simple politeness, and if you see no reason to think they are interested in talking to you, then you should accept you may be interrupting their day and unwelcome. This seems to basic that I don't understand why people are objecting to it.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

It does appear that way. People are reacting more and more extremely to my position, and naturally, my responses are interpreted more extremely in return.

However, my point has been relatively fixed throughout; taking to time to evaluate whether a person (say sitting on a bus or walking down the street) might be interested in a conversation before you start talking to them is a matter of simple politeness, and if you see no reason to think they are interested in talking to you, then you should accept you may be interrupting their day and unwelcome. This seems to basic that I don't understand why people are objecting to it.

I haven't read this whole thread but your point here seems spot on me.

That said, do we know how great this woman's *** looked from behind?

 

[GVC]

I think such fostering needs to include the respect that allows for people to occasionally feel closed off without putting undue pressure on them to alter their mood. I'd be surprised if you didn't, frankly.

I'm about the last person who'd say anything to a complete stranger. That said, I think it's an incredible stretch to claim that saying "hi" or "good morning" or "have a good evening" is putting undue pressure on someone to do anything at all. That this behavior is being labeled as "harassment" in the video from the OP is absurd (obviously, some of the video's content is disturbing).

 

[GVC]

taking to time to evaluate whether a person (say sitting on a bus or walking down the street) might be interested in a conversation before you start talking to them is a matter of simple politeness, and if you see no reason to think they are interested in talking to you, then you should accept you may be interrupting their day and unwelcome. This seems to basic that I don't understand why people are objecting to it.

Who's objecting to that?

 

[One Brow]

You're wrong. She had not even noticed me and was sitting quietly by herself. She was wearing jeans and a fall jacket. The only skin that was showing was her hands and face. She looked like my type so I initiated a verbal conversation to get her attention. I guess I could have bent over in front of her or stared at her but I thought that kind of non verbal communication would just be creepy.

More broadly, people that are lonely display very similar body language to people that want to be left alone. The only way I know how to figure out which the person is feeling is to greet them and gauge their response.

The father figure remark is how I see your general position towards women. I don't think you give them enough credit and far too often think that they need your protection from every little thing in the world.

What is it that makes me impolite or disrespectful? Is it that I disagree with you?

OK.

You can be both lonely generally and in a mood to be alone at a specific time, so I would not be surprised if sometimes the body language would be the same. If initiating a conversation is the only way you can know, I hope you also accept responsibility for any possible disturbance this causes to the other person.

I don't think you have to be a father figure to treat women with respect. I find it interesting that you conflate the two. Why do yo think that is?

You seem like a relatively intelligent person. In fact, you seem intelligent enough that, when I make a reference to something I had said a mere two paragraphs earlier in the same post, you are more than capable of making the connection between the two. Nor do I believe that you were unable to understand the earlier paragraph, in part because you would have asked. Therefore, I can't see any honest way to interpret your last two questions. You know the answer, but rather than be honest about that, you wanted to score some rhetorical points. How well does that speak for your politeness and respect?

 

[One Brow]

With comments where he calls others self centered, the center of the universe or implies that they are disrespectful and rude for not holding his opinion I would agree.

I think we can all be self-centered at times, and without intending to be so.

I fully acknowledge the "center of the universe" was an overboard, hyperbolic comment.

I made no claim heyhey was rude or disrespect for that reason. I laid out the specific reason in the third paragraph that he quoted, and heyhey chose to ignore that point entirely in order to score a rhetorical point. Why did you take him at his word on this rhetorical point, despite the plain text being right there in front of you that I said otherwise.

 

[GVC]

That's fine for the standards you set for yourself when other people interfere with your day. What's lacking so far is your realization that not everyone who holds to these standards, nor is it necessary for them to do so.

I think we all recognize this. Some of us think positive, social culture is important, and that those who promote negative, anti-social culture should be lampooned and driven out (spoiler: The irony is intentional). That's exactly the point of the video in the OP. Most of us, however, don't agree that saying "hi" to someone in a public space is harassment. I'd guess we also generally think that the consequences of promoting complete non-interaction with all strangers in public spaces are more negative than positive.

edit: OB, have you ever lived in a small town where saying "hi" to passersby was the norm?

 

[One Brow]

I'm about the last person who'd say anything to a complete stranger. That said, I think it's an incredible stretch to claim that saying "hi" or "good morning" or "have a good evening" is putting undue pressure on someone to do anything at all. That this behavior is being labeled as "harassment" in the video from the OP is absurd (obviously, some of the video's content is disturbing).

Harassment is not just a single incident, it can be the part of a pattern of uncoordinated activity. One guy telling an inappropriate joke is not harassment, but when you hear inappropriate jokes 8 or 10 times a day, even if they come from different people and even if there is no coordination, it is still harassment. When you hear 10 comments an hour, even if no individual comment is harassment and no person intends to harass, to overall effect can be harassing.

 

[One Brow]

Who's objecting to that?

LogGrad98, heyhey, and fishonjazz within the last few pages of this thread.

Honestly, I was surprised that when it seemed to me that you disagreed.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

It's now OneBrow's office hours, no doubt.