More death threats -- Woman take video of her walk through New York

[One Brow]

How do you do that?

There can be any number of ways. Eye contact, clear your throat, etc., and see if there is a sort of response before you proceed. Honestly, I find it difficult to believe you don't do these things regularly anyhow, a great deal of the time.

 

[LogGrad98]

There can be any number of ways. Eye contact, clear your throat, etc., and see if there is a sort of response before you proceed. Honestly, I find it difficult to believe you don't do these things regularly anyhow, a great deal of the time.

How about just saying "hi" or "Good morning" to see if there is a reciprocal "hi"?

 

[One Brow]

How about just saying "hi" or "Good morning" to see if there is a reciprocal "hi"?

How about it? If the woman reaction is strongly negative, will you think it's hers problem for being so sensitive, or your fault for not making sure she wants to start a conversation?

 

[♪alt13]

Actually, I'm making the suggestion that you take a couple of extra seconds to verify that they want to be checked out or hit on.

First: (and I'm pretty sure that i have made this request before.) If you go back and read the post you are quoting you will see that I was polite enough not to delete any of siro's post that I was quoting. I choose to bold what I was addressing so that anyone that read it could see the full argument of his post without having to go back. Although I don't think that you are trying to frame my argument in this instance it is a tactic that you frequently use. Unless I post a novel I would appreciate the same courtesy in the future.

Second: When I first met my lady friend I had no idea whether she wanted to be hit on. I'm just not very good at reading minds. I could have taken a week and I still would not have known whether she would appreciate my advances or if she would rather I let her be. I took a chance and we have been together now for 12+ years.

I do not think it is my place to behave like a father figure for all womankind. I don't think that they need my protection from every boy that speaks to them. I do think women are strong enough to tell people how they feel at which point their wishes should be respected. I do think that men should show a little more respect than some of these men did when making a pass at a woman but I do not think that they should be expected to read minds.

 

[Nightmare]

If women don't want to be hit on wear a hoodie and wear ear phones. If people still hit on you take paper spray or a tazer with you. For those of you that say "women shouldn't have to take that with them." I don't know what type of world you live in. I shouldn't have to lock my door but I have to or someone could come barging in. We shouldn't have to pay taxes for police but police are necessary. We live in a world were people rape, steal, murder and it will never go away. Donating to an anti harassment is comparable to donating to an anti murder or anti steal cause.

 

[Gameface]

It's pretty damn comical when you think that, just because something is a joke, it is not also trying to make a response-worthy point at the same time. Tell me more about the fine art of reading discussion boards.

Umm, he made an important point, one that you seemed to miss.

 

[One Brow]

First: (and I'm pretty sure that i have made this request before.) If you go back and read the post you are quoting you will see that I was polite enough not to delete any of siro's post that I was quoting. I choose to bold what I was addressing so that anyone that read it could see the full argument of his post without having to go back. Although I don't think that you are trying to frame my argument in this instance it is a tactic that you frequently use. Unless I post a novel I would appreciate the same courtesy in the future.

Second: When I first met my lady friend I had no idea whether she wanted to be hit on. I'm just not very good at reading minds. I could have taken a week and I still would not have known whether she would appreciate my advances or if she would rather I let her be. I took a chance and we have been together now for 12+ years.

I do not think it is my place to behave like a father figure for all womankind. I don't think that they need my protection from every boy that speaks to them. I do think women are strong enough to tell people how they feel at which point their wishes should be respected. I do think that men should show a little more respect than some of these men did when making a pass at a woman but I do not think that they should be expected to read minds.

I don't recall reading that request before. I'll try to remember it.

I certainly would not want to be discourteous.

I don't know anyone who's good at reading minds, and more to the point, I don't know of any post in here where any poster has asked any other poster read minds at all, regardless of their proficiency. To cast the debate in those terms is dishonest tactic, and in particular when you ignore the actual suggestions of the person to whom you are responding, It makes it seem that you have no reasonable retort, so you must exaggerate your opponents position in order to defeat it. Since you feel courtesy is so important (historically as well as in this discussion), how about you try being courteous enough to limit your opposition to the actual suggestions that have been brought forth multiple times?

I don't know what degree of knowledge by you mean by "know". It's easy enough to read non-verbal signals and have a decent idea that a greeting will be welcome or unwelcome, this is a skill learned by almost everyone; we rely on non-verbal every day. While I'm skeptical that fully 93% of communication is non-verbal, I would expect this number to be close to half. If you were truly incapable of non-verbal communication, you would be living a very lonely life, probably incapable of passing a class or holding down any sort of real-world job. In fact, I would venture that, even if you were not certain, you had exchanged enough non-verbal cues with your not-yet-wife that, upon actually speaking to her, you had a fairly reasonable expectation that she would respond. By contrast, the woman in this video is giving several non-verbal cues that she is disinterested, and the men are not swayed. The effect is an impression that men are free to invade a woman private sphere at any time they choose.

No one asked you to do anything for womankind, except engage in simple politeness and respect (which is something you should do as much for yourself as for anyone), a trait you have no qualms asking for, but seem disinclined to extend to others.

I think all of them should so more respect.

 

[One Brow]

If women don't want to be hit on wear a hoodie and wear ear phones.

If you don't want to be stabbed to death, wear full body armor.

 

[One Brow]

Umm, he made an important point, one that you seemed to miss.

Perhaps. What do you think the point was that I missed?

 

[Nightmare]

If you don't want to be stabbed to death, wear full body armor.

If it is necessary. If I go to the hood like the lady in the video went at some points I would go with a crowd of people or will full body armor and a gun.

 

[8]

There can be any number of ways. Eye contact, clear your throat, etc., and see if there is a sort of response before you proceed. Honestly, I find it difficult to believe you don't do these things regularly anyhow, a great deal of the time.

I always say, "Nice boobs!" when I clear my throat. I don't know why, it's just a natural thing. Honestly, I prefer it to happen around women so men don't get the wrong idea. What do you recommend when someone with an affliction such as mine has a froggy in his/her throat?

 

[LogGrad98]

How about it? If the woman reaction is strongly negative, will you think it's hers problem for being so sensitive, or your fault for not making sure she wants to start a conversation?

First, you side-stepped the question. I did not ask about how I perceived her response, but rather if you felt that my saying "hi" to initiate a social interaction was allowable.

So going back to that question, I was asking if saying "hi" was a reasonable way to "take a few seconds" to see if she is open to an interaction. Since you skipped that and went straight to her inevitable negative reaction I would have to infer that you feel it is not acceptable to say "hi" to someone without very clear explicit unspoken "cues" or "signals".

In my experience as a manager dealing with thousands of people in their daily interactions with other people over the past 20+ years I have found that humans are profoundly poor at reading unspoken "signals" from other human beings and typically make poor decisions based on those signals. I always tell people to engage folks in conversation, that it is always best to talk through things, in a polite and non-aggressive and non-threatening manner (actually most companies conduct training on exactly this topic - organizational behavior - in various formats).

As a result I think saying "hi" or "good morning" is a perfectly acceptable way to gauge whether someone is interested in a dialogue, and in no way would only a social pariah even dare think about actually talking to someone as a means to "break the ice", as it were. In fact I would say that what you are implying about not trying to engage in a verbal interaction until you perceive some unspoken inexact "signal" is actually socially backward behavior. I would argue that in our society a simple "hi" is fully acceptable to generate a social interaction and in no way shape or form should be viewed as a type of stalker behavior.

Now we can absolutely have a discussion about how you say "hi" that might generate a positive or negative response, but I think it is ridiculous in the extreme to try to claim that any form a saying "hi" without a completely clear and understood unspoken cue is inappropriate social behavior.


***

Now to your attempt to respond to something I did not say (see the quote above), if I say "hi" to someone and they give me a dirty look or turn away abruptly or otherwise attempt to express their displeasure, I go about my business. That is their choice to respond that way if for some reason saying "hi" offends them. I may think, wow what a jerk, but I won't pursue it. And frankly the percentage of times that has occurred to me, a person who makes it a habit of smiling and saying "hi" to pretty much everyone as I am walking about the workplace, and which has become a habit mostly everywhere in my life, is so miniscule that I cannot remember the last time I got anything worse than a "hi" in return.

Unless, of course, I am misreading all those critical unspoken signals, but that never happens, right?

 

[GVC]

In fact I would say that what you are implying about not trying to engage in a verbal interaction until you perceive some unspoken inexact "signal" is actually socially backward behavior. I would argue that in our society a simple "hi" is fully acceptable to generate a social interaction and in no way shape or form should be viewed as a type of stalker behavior.

Now we can absolutely have a discussion about how you say "hi" that might generate a positive or negative response, but I think it is ridiculous in the extreme to try to claim that any form a saying "hi" without a completely clear and understood unspoken cue is inappropriate social behavior.

I'd take the bolded one step further, and say that responding to a friendly/innocuous greeting in a public space by taking offense or with outright hostility is anti-social behavior. In most cases, I think ignoring people entirely (even if they're trying to sell something) is anti-social as well. Negative reactions to catcalls and the like are obvious exceptions.

 

[DutchJazzer]

well human kind has become like the nba. a bunch of winey felines


now they call more flagrant fouls. ticky tack fouls become flagrant.
instead of focusing on the intent they focus on the "how bad does he fall/land"


so yeah it is just a trend sadly it spoiled the nba, and sadly this same trend destroys society.

 

[DutchJazzer]

 

[framer]

Best commentary on the subject by far. Excellent use of the internet:

[video=youtube_share;gEAC7nl5n2g]https://youtu.be/gEAC7nl5n2g

 

[VINYLONE]

I always say, "Nice boobs!" when I clear my throat. I don't know why, it's just a natural thing.

LOL.

Viking photo

Well played, Butch. Well played. I chortled.

 

[One Brow]

First, you side-stepped the question. I did not ask about how I perceived her response, but rather if you felt that my saying "hi" to initiate a social interaction was allowable.

Sorry, I had thought my answer was implied in that question. I'll spell it out for you in more detail. The question also served another purpose, to see if you are really so self-centered that you think you are owed something by strangers in the street.

So going back to that question, I was asking if saying "hi" was a reasonable way to "take a few seconds" to see if she is open to an interaction. Since you skipped that and went straight to her inevitable negative reaction I would have to infer that you feel it is not acceptable to say "hi" to someone without very clear explicit unspoken "cues" or "signals".

By the use of "if", as opposed to when, it should have been clear that I was not referring to something inevitable, but merely something possible. Although, if you continually start conversations out of the blue with random strangers, with no non-verbal signaling at all, I suppose it will happen eventually. One of those people will be having just a horrible day, and your unwanted intrusion will be the last straw, at some point.

In my experience as a manager ... I always tell people to engage folks in conversation, that it is always best to talk through things, ...

In that context, it certainly seems appropriate. Do you think strangers on the street need to talk through things with you, or that you need to talk through things with them? If not, why is your experience in the workplace relevant to this issue?

As a result I think saying "hi" or "good morning" is a perfectly acceptable way to gauge whether someone is interested in a dialogue, and in no way would only a social pariah even dare think about actually talking to someone as a means to "break the ice", as it were. In fact I would say that what you are implying about not trying to engage in a verbal interaction until you perceive some unspoken inexact "signal" is actually socially backward behavior.

Do you also accept that, when you go up and say "Hi" to someone uninvited, that you are also accepting that their conversation may not be pleasant? *If* they yell, or shun, or whatever, do you accept blame and/or apologize for interrupting them? Do you internally acknowledge that if was your issue because you put them into the interaction, and it is not their responsibility to portray a mood they may not feel internally?

The answer to your question "How about just saying 'hi' or 'Good morning' to see if there is a reciprocal 'hi'?" depends, at least in part, upon how much you recognize that people don't owe you a pleasant response, and that when you instigate a social interaction uninvited, you are to blame if the interaction does not proceed in accord with your expectations. If any responses you might make to a negative reaction would indicate that you understand you bear more responsibility for a bad interaction than the person you just aggravated, then your attempt at communication would be less burdensome to the person to whom you spoke, and bears less of a potential negative load.

I would argue that in our society a simple "hi" is fully acceptable to generate a social interaction and in no way shape or form should be viewed as a type of stalker behavior.

I would argue that I can categorize that behavior in other ways besides "acceptable" or "stalker". If I had to pick a single word, it would be "entitled".

Now we can absolutely have a discussion about how you say "hi" that might generate a positive or negative response, but I think it is ridiculous in the extreme to try to claim that any form a saying "hi" without a completely clear and understood unspoken cue is inappropriate social behavior.

I think it is ridiculous in the extreme to think that, when you interrupt people, they owe you a pleasant interaction. If you agree, then we are arguing over very little, indeed.

Now to your attempt to respond to something I did not say (see the quote above), if I say "hi" to someone and they give me a dirty look or turn away abruptly or otherwise attempt to express their displeasure, I go about my business. That is their choice to respond that way if for some reason saying "hi" offends them. I may think, wow what a jerk, but I won't pursue it.

How noble of you that, after you have made someone's day a little worse, you don't openly pursue blaming them for not living up to your expectations.

And frankly the percentage of times that has occurred to me, a person who makes it a habit of smiling and saying "hi" to pretty much everyone as I am walking about the workplace, and which has become a habit mostly everywhere in my life, is so miniscule that I cannot remember the last time I got anything worse than a "hi" in return.

Because the workplace is such an exact parallel to seeing random people on the street.

Unless, of course, I am misreading all those critical unspoken signals, but that never happens, right?

Perhaps not to you. After all, you seem to think those random people owe you pleasantness.

 

[One Brow]

I'd take the bolded one step further, and say that responding to a friendly/innocuous greeting in a public space by taking offense or with outright hostility is anti-social behavior. In most cases, I think ignoring people entirely (even if they're trying to sell something) is anti-social as well. Negative reactions to catcalls and the like are obvious exceptions.

I've got bad news for you, GVC. You are not the center of the universe. Expecting random strangers to take time out of their thought and their lives in order to exchange strokes with you, and be cheerful about it, is anti-social behavior.

 

[One Brow]

Viking picture.

Very ironic, coming from you.