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Mormon Temple ceremony.

The Thriller said:
No clue. Enlighten the board please.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_Rockwell

Orrin Porter Rockwell was born on June 28, 1813 in Belchertown, Hampshire County, Massachusetts to Orin and Sarah Rockwell. He was baptized into the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Ontario County, New York in 1830.[SUP][1][/SUP]He married Luana Beebe on February 2, 1832 in Jackson County, Missouri, and was endowed in the Nauvoo Temple on January 5, 1846.[SUP][2][/SUP] A member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, he served as a loyal personal bodyguard to both Joseph Smith, Jr. and Brigham Young. Separating fact from legends, folklore and myths concerning Rockwell is difficult for historians, in large part because Rockwell was only semi-literate and kept no personal diary.
He had the distinction of being the subject of a direct prophecy by Joseph Smith. After spending eight months in jail on charges of attempting to assassinate former Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs, a filthy and emaciated Rockwell traveled toNauvoo, where he appeared unannounced at a Christmas party at Joseph Smith's home. When his identity was confirmed, Smith was moved to say, "I prophesy, in the name of the Lord, that you — Orrin Porter Rockwell — so long as ye shall remain loyal and true to thy faith, need fear no enemy. Cut not thy hair and no bullet or blade can harm thee.".[SUP][3][/SUP] The promise echoes that given by an angel to the parents of the Biblical Samson.[SUP][4][/SUP]Rockwell was a character of contrasts.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] On one hand he was said to be generous to a fault[SUP][citation needed][/SUP], even to strangers[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]. For example, upon hearing of a widow who was balding from typhoid fever, he gave up his famous long hair to make the woman a wig[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]. (The recipient of the hair was Agnes Coolbrith Smith Pickett, widow of Joseph Smith's brother Don Carlos, and mother of Ina Coolbrith, who grew up to be Poet Laureate of California.)[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
On the other hand, he was reputed to have killed many men as a gunfighter, as a religious enforcer, and Deputy United States Marshal. It is said that Porter once told a crowd listening to United States Vice President Schuyler Colfax in 1869, "I never killed anyone who didn't need killing"
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Porter operated the Hot Springs Hotel and Brewery at the southern end of the Salt Lake Valley, in an area known as "Point of the Mountain." The former site of the hotel is now on the grounds of a state prison. A nearby stone marker commemorates the spot.[SUP][9][/SUP]
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So beyond "religious engorcer" there is not alot there. Maybe he was.
 
Sirkickyass said:
I'm not certain the record is totally clear on Joseph Smith and violence. There's that whole Danite thing after all. And that's before we even get into Porter Rockwell.
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For what it's worth, I am certain. And I've read a LOT about Joseph Smith, from a lot of different sources. He certainly had his flaws, but a tendency for violence or inciting to violence wasn't one of them.
 
colton said:
For what it's worth, I am certain. And I've read a LOT about Joseph Smith, from a lot of different sources. He certainly had his flaws, but a tendency for violence or inciting to violence wasn't one of them.
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I think his relationship with Porter Rockwell (who was undeniably a violent dude) and the exact level of influence he had with the Danites is in the camp of "no one will ever really know." There's a lot of circumstantial evidence but no smoking guns. I groupt it in with all Joseph Smith folk magic stories as "if anyone tells you they know exactly what happened, they're lying to you or themselves."

I understand there's a mini-industry of Porter Rockwell biographies and they are all over the map, but to my knowledge none of them paint him as some kind of perfect sinless dude who could never dream of harming a kitten.

There are many things about that early church that are simply unknowable. I'm pretty sure most of the Mormons on this board are unaware of lots of the non-church taught historical record
 
Sirkickyass said:
I think his relationship with Porter Rockwell (who was undeniably a violent dude) and the exact level of influence he had with the Danites is in the camp of "no one will ever really know." There's a lot of circumstantial evidence but no smoking guns. I groupt it in with all Joseph Smith folk magic stories as "if anyone tells you they know exactly what happened, they're lying to you or themselves."

I understand there's a mini-industry of Porter Rockwell biographies and they are all over the map, but to my knowledge none of them paint him as some kind of perfect sinless dude who could never dream of harming a kitten.

There are many things about that early church that are simply unknowable. I'm pretty sure most of the Mormons on this board are unaware of lots of the non-church taught historical record
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I've never met another Mormon that knew about Joseph having a pistol at Carthage jail, and I grew up Mormon.
 
My porter already has a name I like, Pistol Porter, but I'm going to brew my first Stout soon and it's going to be called Porter Rockwell's Invincibility Stout. It'll have to be a RIS (Russian Imperial Stout). P. Rockwell Invincibility Stout.

"I prophesy, in the name of the Lord, that you — Orrin Porter Rockwell — so long as ye shall remain loyal and true to thy faith, need fear no enemy. Cut not thy hair and no bullet or blade can harm thee."
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--Joseph Smith, Jr.
 
colton said:
I seriously doubt this. The first part, that is, not the second part.
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You might want to take that up with the Church History Museum.

The gun Joseph used is on the right. The one Hyrum used is on the left.

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Next time you're in SLC go check it out.

This is one of those things that isn't contested by the church. If you have your official church history, it's right in there.
 
colton said:
I seriously doubt this. The first part, that is, not the second part.
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I have never heard before that joseph smith had a gun and was the first to fire and kill 3 people according to official church documents from the time. Have you heard this before and would you consider this common LDS knowledge?

Not that I blame him for defending himself if I found myself in jail and people were marching in to kill me illegally and I had a gun I would take as many with me that I could.

I am genuinely curious about this knowledge and its circulation within LDS culture, I am not trying to be rude or argumentative.
 
pickledXgrandma said:
I don't blame him either. It's just funny what the church simply chooses not to teach.
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Now, primary kids, sit down. Let's talk about something that doesn't matter.

Why the hell would any of that be taught? How is it important?

Ever notice that people believe and read what they want to, and if people do otherwise, then they're morons? hahaha
 
Archie Moses said:
Now, primary kids, sit down. Let's talk about something that doesn't matter.

Why the hell would any of that be taught? How is it important?

Ever notice that people believe and read what they want to, and if people do otherwise, then they're morons? hahaha
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Who says what parts matter? I remember being told lots of times about Joseph being martyred in Carthage Jail. I've heard lots of times that Smith was essentially a pacifist. Oliver Cowdery is portrayed as pretty important being one of the Three Witnesses and the scribe to the Book of Mormon, but his entire relationship with the church is wiped away after 1838.

Those things just aren't really true. Most LDS church members aren't even aware how significant the power struggle for church leadership was following Smith's death. I remember some mention of Joseph Smith III staking a claim, but I don't remember any discussion regarding the three year gap between Smith and Brigham Young during which all kinds of succession shenanigans went down, including the excommunication of Sidney Rigdon, then a member of the first presidency, to consolidate Brigham Young's power. I think most members believe Young was the natural successor. Personally, I think there was more than a little David Miscaivage in Brigham Young.

A big chunk of the early mormon history narrative is one of unwarranted and relentless persecution. There was some of that sure, but the facts are much more complicated than rank and file members know.
 
I think you all missed Coltons point. I believe he is saying that he does not believe pickled about other Mormons not knowing. I knew.
 
Sirkickyass said:
Who says what parts matter? I remember being told lots of times about Joseph being martyred in Carthage Jail. I've heard lots of times that Smith was essentially a pacifist.

Those things just aren't really true. Most LDS church members aren't even aware how significant the power struggle for church leadership was following Smith's death. I remember some mention of Joseph Smith III staking a claim, but I don't remember any discussion regarding the three year gap between Smith and Brigham Young during which all kinds of succession shenanigans went down, including the excommunication of Sidney Rigdon, then a member of the first presidency, to consolidate Brigham Young's power. I think most members believe Young was the natural successor.
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Just try to imagine the implications this would have had on modern day college sports if you want to get an idea of how serious it was.
 
Also, growing up they never really taught why he went to jail. Teachers just made it sound like he was there because he was Mormon, they never teach about him ordering the destruction of the printing presses.
 
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