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Move On From Hayward?

fishonjazz said:
I agree about wade. But they landed a young wade in the draft. Prime wade (that they acquired through the draft) is a million times better than Hayward.

The jazz need to draft someone better than Hayward like a lot of teams have done. I think it will happen soon (or a current player will eclipse him).

I just don't think he is all that good.

We just disagree on that basic simple thing. This conversation has no reason to continue.
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This is a joke.
 
King Cy said:
Back to extreme level idiocy. Has maxing Hayward prevented us from competing? Or is it injuries and lack of spending on rotation pieces?
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Maybe without hayward we would have felt the need to be more aggressive in trades, or free agency. Maybe we would have had a different position in the draft and got a better player. Hell since hayward is so damn good maybe we would have sucked really bad last season without him and got lucky with the ping pong balls and drafted KAT.
I am not a future predicting fortune teller.
 
King Cy said:
This is a joke.
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No, you have convinced me. Hayward is awesome and we will never have anyone better ever again. Give him whatever he wants. Hayward is the man.
 
King Cy said:
Butler/Thompson arguable, but I disagree. Thompson is great, but is also a product of a great team.
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Hayward greater than thompson. Lol
 
fishonjazz said:
Maybe without hayward we would have felt the need to be more aggressive in trades, or free agency. Maybe we would have had a different position in the draft and got a better player. Hell since hayward is so damn good maybe we would have sucked really bad last season without him and got lucky with the ping pong balls and drafted KAT.
I am not a future predicting fortune teller.
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So by having a less competitive team that would have made the Jazz more aggressive in FA? That makes sense.

Maybe we would have had a different position and gotten a worse player or the same player (if you believe the Jazz actually liked the players we took). That outcome is just as likely, if not more (considering Im pretty damn happy with Exum and Lyles) likely.
 
fishonjazz said:
Hayward greater than thompson. Lol
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Gets to the FT line more, more rebounds, more assist. Is the leader player of his team and not a guy receiving the benefit of the greatest player in the game and the best passing big man in the NBA.

But lol. Crazy to think Hayward would be a much better player if he was surrounded by Curry/Green.
 
King Cy said:
So by having a less competitive team that would have made the Jazz more aggressive in FA? That makes sense.

Maybe we would have had a different position and gotten a worse player or the same player (if you believe the Jazz actually liked the players we took). That outcome is just as likely, if not more (considering Im pretty damn happy with Exum and Lyles) likely.
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I agree. There is no way to know what would have happened. I'm not a fortune teller. I do know what has happened. (Not an all star yet. No playoffs yet. Going to have to pay him over 30 million dollars. Shooting percentages from three and overall declined)


I don't like what has happened with him.
 
fishonjazz said:
I agree. There is no way to know what would have happened. I'm not a fortune teller. I do know what has happened. (Not an all star yet. No playoffs yet. Going to have to pay him over 30 million dollars. Shooting percentages from three and overall declined)


I don't like what has happened with him.
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Yeah, your opinion is just wrong, I'm sorry.

This the same story from 2 years ago, only now the % of the cap is slightly more. The huge increase in pay makes it seem like a lot more, but everyone is getting paid a lot more. You are letting the emotion of a NBA player getting paid a ridiculous amount of money stand in the way of proper judgement.
 
fishonjazz said:
Stars are acquired all the time in drafts.
Go through each team and determine their best player (this player is usually better than Hayward).
Then see how that player was acquired. (Almost always through the draft)
Its a matter of time until one of our current players that we drafted becomes better than Hayward or a player we draft in the near future is better than Hayward.

I want to use the max at that point. Hayward isn't good enough. Almost every single team in the league has a player better than Hayward and more worthy of the max. We will have a player better than Hayward and more worthy of the max soon also.
For now we can replace Hayward with a player that is about as good as him for less money and wait to max a better player when that player comes along. Should be soon. We are due. Most other teams have drafted a player than Hayward and I don't think that those teams are just better at it than us (butler was the 30th pick for example).
We will have our guy soon. There is alot of random luck involved. Hayward just isn't on the same level of most max players imo
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How many players in the league do you think are better than Hayward? There aren't 30 players better than Hayward. And most of them are gathered in the same team. I'd say Hayward would be the best player on about 10-15 teams in the league.
 
Interesting conversation about Hayward, Butler and Thompson. All three are comparable, but I think I would rank them Thompson, Butler then Hayward. I say that for a few reasons
1. Shooting - Thompson is ridiculous
2. "star power" - Thompson and Butler have it and Hayward doesn't. This type of recognition not only brings in endorsement dollars, but it helps with luring other free agents and also with referees who respond more to stars. Sad but true.
3. Athleticism - Butler's skill set should keep him in the league for a long, long time because he can always slide to SF because of his strength and skill set. Thompson can shoot. When Hayward loses a step, he's a strong bench player in the mold of Richard Jefferson.
 
I don't subscribe to either the HOMERS or the HATERS. I subscribe to objectivity.

I have found some objectivity on the forum, and that's awesome. But to all the HOMERS and the HATERS out there go **** yourself.
 
King Cy said:
Yeah, your opinion is just wrong, I'm sorry.

This the same story from 2 years ago, only now the % of the cap is slightly more. The huge increase in pay makes it seem like a lot more, but everyone is getting paid a lot more. You are letting the emotion of a NBA player getting paid a ridiculous amount of money stand in the way of proper judgement.
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No, you're wrong you apologist homer.
 
BENTLEY said:
I don't subscribe to either the HOMERS or the HATERS. I subscribe to objectivity.

I have found some objectivity on the forum, and that's awesome. But to all the HOMERS and the HATERS out there go **** yourself.
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Objectivity: "Hayward should only be paid 7 million dollars a year"
 
Could Hayward be a better shooting version of Andre Iguodala? I think they have a similar impact on games.

And yes, I would pay the max to Iggy in his prime.
 
fishonjazz said:
Im not saying Hayward won't get max. I'm saying I wouldn't pay him it.
I also wouldn't sign hibbert, melo, rose, love, gordon, johnson, howard, kanter, harris, parsons, middleton, gallinari, or jackson to a max deal. I think those teams made a mistake and many of them probably regret it. I mean look at the teams of those players. Are they contenders due to those players? Loves team is but they might be better without him. Johnsons team was pretty good but not mainly due to him.

Bosh and millsap I probably wouldn't max either. (But I think they are closer to the max than Hayward)
Wade, butler, and thompson are better than Hayward imo and more deserving of the max.
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Why in hell wouldn't you pay him max? EVERY contending team pays 2-3 players the max. EVERY!!! The only quesiton you need to ask yourself is - is Hayward a top 3 player on a contender? The answer to this question should be obvious! You give him the money! The problem with this team is not Hayward.

Lets go through them contenders:

GSW - Draymond max, Thompson max, Curry(will get max), Barnes(probably will get max, don't know if by GSW, but wouldn't be surprised) - 4 players at max
CLE - Lebron max, Love max, Kyrie max, Thompson max - 4 players at max
SAS - Kawhi max, Aldridge max - 2 players at max
LAC - Griffin max, Jordan max, CP3 max - 3 players at max
OKC - Westbrook max, Durant max, Kanter max - 3 players at max

The problem with Utah is not Hayward and how much he makes - he is perfectly worthy of the max. The problem is that we don't have a Curry or a Lebron or a Durant.
 
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