What's new

Never Trump

It’s easy to not take the alt-right seriously because their views are so outlandish. But that’s Trump. He wallows in the outlandish.

Trump has pandered to the alt-right movement from the very beginnings of his presidential run and recently formalized the connection when he hired Steve Bannon to run his campaign. Until taking a leave of absence to work with Trump, Bannon was chief executive of Breitbart News, a popular news and opinion website that he personally transformed from conservative anti-establishment into alt-right, white nationalist advocacy over the past several years.

Clinton’s speech yesterday was an attempt to isolate Trump from the Republican Party by linking him to far-right, white supremacists and she lumped the alt-right into the same generic pot. But the alt-right has their own distinct brand of crazy.

Summary of alt-nuts in a nutshell: they trend younger than other white supremacy factions, which helps explain their major distinguishing feature: they have given up on democracy. They acknowledge demographic trends and see their future as forever diminished if free elections are allowed to continue. So they dream of dictatorship by CEO, a technocratic authoritarian, and Trump is their flawed savior (they recognize his ordinary intellect), but if Trump were able to win in November, they actually hope he will institute martial law, and thereby end democracy before the more melanin-enabled reach a tipping point of power in deciding national elections.

I really hate to see intelligent folks lathered in rhetoric of this sort. The impulse to assume one's views are inherently superior is not isolated to the po white uneducated lower middle class trailer trash, yo.

There is a reaction some people have when, say, a white middle class working young mother is sitting in the pediatrician's office worrying about how she will pay the bills while melanin-enhanced welfare=supported women legal and illegal are having their bills paid for by the government.

The status quo you folks are holding forth as enlightened is actually putting white folks in isolation as the only unprotected class of people who don't have a security net. If you had the character to be consistent in your principles you would immediately start to demand equality under the law for whites.

I recognize political exploitation of "melanin-enhanced+ folks as racism at it finest.
 
Last edited:
I've listened to Bannon and others classed as this "alt right" some, and so far as I can make it out, their principles run in the genre of people being people with no distinctions under the law. They might be talking about exploitation of immigrants as a form of slave labor that the government is subsidizing for the benefit of the privileged "cash-endowed" political donor class, though.

Hillary is an unconscionable corrupt exploiter of the government desperate to misdirect people's attention. Trump is a pretty average member of the donor class whom Hillary wouldn't blanch at taking donations from in practically any back room or dark alley.

Some folks in here, and out there, are political ideologues who wouldn't blanch at inciting race warfare to advance your ideals or agendas politically, and might even be paid stooges for George Soros, for all I know.

Trump is not doing much thinking along racial lines. He would try to end the political dependencies "liberals" have reinforced in the black community and in the latino community, while restoring the significance of national borders as a necessary thing to sound management.
 
I've listened to Bannon and others classed as this "alt right" some, and so far as I can make it out, their principles run in the genre of people being people with no distinctions under the law. They might be talking about exploitation of immigrants as a form of slave labor that the government is subsidizing for the benefit of the privileged "cash-endowed" political donor class, though.

Hillary is an unconscionable corrupt exploiter of the government desperate to misdirect people's attention. Trump is a pretty average member of the donor class whom Hillary wouldn't blanch at taking donations from in practically any back room or dark alley.

Some folks in here, and out there, are political ideologues who wouldn't blanch at inciting race warfare to advance your ideals or agendas politically, and might even be paid stooges for George Soros, for all I know.

Trump is not doing much thinking along racial lines. He would try to end the political dependencies "liberals" have reinforced in the black community and in the latino community, while restoring the significance of national borders as a necessary thing to sound management.

Since the alt-right openly talks about non-whites inherent inferiority (read the American Renaissance article a few posts up for one example out of a million), nobody is gonna buy your defense of them as valiant defenders of equality.
 
Since the alt-right openly talks about non-whites inherent inferiority (read the American Renaissance article a few posts up for one example out of a million), nobody is gonna buy your defense of them as valiant defenders of equality.

you and the little band of Jazzfanzers in here can't speak for anyone else. What I see in your comment is pure stupidity, a willing if not determined ignorance to make things what they are not to suit your prejudices. You are as ignorant as any "alt right" people there are.

And there are, indeed some people on the net who are pure racists pushing white supremacy. But Bannon, in anything I've heard, is distinguishable from them rhetorically and contextually, as is Trump. To make this your case against Donald Trump is unfounded. You are apparently willing to seize on any issue you can to make a case, whether based on fact or fiction.

If I had heard Bannon or Trump say blacks or latinos have any inferior rights or characteristics, I wouldn't be calling you an ignoramus for claiming they did.

To the contrary, I do see Hillary and Obama pushing racial division.
 
you and the little band of Jazzfanzers in here can't speak for anyone else. What I see in your comment is pure stupidity, a willing if not determined ignorance to make things what they are not to suit your prejudices. You are as ignorant as any "alt right" people there are.

And there are, indeed some people on the net who are pure racists pushing white supremacy. But Bannon, in anything I've heard, is distinguishable from them rhetorically and contextually, as is Trump. To make this your case against Donald Trump is unfounded. You are apparently willing to seize on any issue you can to make a case, whether based on fact or fiction.

If I had heard Bannon or Trump say blacks or latinos have any inferior rights or characteristics, I wouldn't be calling you an ignoramus for claiming they did.

To the contrary, I do see Hillary and Obama pushing racial division.

Such aggression. I was addressing the alt-right in general. I don't keep track of what every one of your heroes says, nor do I care to. The alt-right is now largely motivated by delusions of racial superiority. You already know this, since you lift most of your gibberish from alt-right sites, and the comments sections are littered with racism.

And since when do you even have a problem with racism? Just the other day you were rambling about how progressives are no different than the racists, since they're prejudiced against racial supremacists.
 
I really hate to see intelligent folks lathered in rhetoric of this sort. The impulse to assume one's views are inherently superior is not isolated to the po white uneducated lower middle class trailer trash, yo.
I agree. I had second thoughts and felt it was over-heated and superficial as soon as I pressed post, but it was already too late because I never edit after a post is up, whether for typo, content or tone. You’d think that would teach me to be more thoughtful. Anyway, maybe I’ll come back with a more reasoned approach to the subject at a later point when I have more time.
 
Such aggression. I was addressing the alt-right in general. I don't keep track of what every one of your heroes says, nor do I care to. The alt-right is now largely motivated by delusions of racial superiority. You already know this, since you lift most of your gibberish from alt-right sites, and the comments sections are littered with racism.

And since when do you even have a problem with racism? Just the other day you were rambling about how progressives are no different than the racists, since they're prejudiced against racial supremacists.

how sensitive of you. If anyone says the wrong thing, it's gotta be some kind of micro-aggression. yah yah yah. All I did was diss your stupid insult, that nobody would agree with me. Hence, of course, my idea could not be valid.

nothing to do with the facts or evidence at hand. That's just a useless way to respond to anything.

I believe Hillary is a racist. So what? What's the basis or information I'm looking at. Well, she's human, and it's a universal human trait to form group concepts, and attribute some kind of goodness or value to the group you want to identify with.l Liberals are all "racists" in that sense, and they think people who don't agree are stupid, evil, and repugnant. They even want to make laws to make sure everyone agrees or complies.

Of course, everyone is prone to this sort of thinking and action.

I don't care how many laws you make, how many college courses on racism kids have to sit through. Things as obvious and convenient as skin color are always going to be in the mix as people form these ideas and values. It's human nature, and no amount of evolution or progress will ever overcome it.

What we can do is assert a principle of equality under the law. But every "protected" classkification is an assault on the "unprotected", and the more of these efforts, the more the backlash will be.

That's why I think Hillary and Obama are pushing us toawards a race war. It's stupid policies that promote "change" on terms that offend or mistreat one group while helping another.

I see and hear the Libs creating divisions and groupings and acting to favor or help one while lecturing the other all the time.

So far, the worst I can make of what I've heard Trump say is that we should be concerned enough about obvious dangers to stop bringing unknown people in. At least, let's check to see if they pose danger. I think he meant check for criminal past and ideological enmity against America which is related to a plan to do some terrorist or other harm to our security.

So I read Mother Jones' article on Bannon and the "alt right", and I have heard discussions on Breitbart where Bannon discussed how the intent to follow Sharia law is incompatible with American ideas of government that does not endorse religion per se. Yes we have lots of laws derived from Christian beliefs, but I believe you would object just as Bannon does if the folks coming in believed in burning witches and such. Burning witches equates roughly in my book with some aspects of punishments under Sharia law. This sort of talk, Mother Jones holds out as evidence of Bannon being "alt right".

The hard extreme racists, the sort who are moving to the Northwest and prepping for a race war, are something else, imo.

I think Islam has some history of religious tolerance in some eras of history, sometimes being more tolerant than contemporary Christianity.... I mean contemporary of those times. But the present hard radicals seem to have none, or is it just the news that plays it that way? So Americans who want religious liberty should be concerned with the changes being imposed on them by governance that imports masses of these people who have no thought of respecting us.
 
you and the little band of Jazzfanzers in here can't speak for anyone else. What I see in your comment is pure stupidity, a willing if not determined ignorance to make things what they are not to suit your prejudices. You are as ignorant as any "alt right" people there are.

And there are, indeed some people on the net who are pure racists pushing white supremacy. But Bannon, in anything I've heard, is distinguishable from them rhetorically and contextually, as is Trump. To make this your case against Donald Trump is unfounded. You are apparently willing to seize on any issue you can to make a case, whether based on fact or fiction.

If I had heard Bannon or Trump say blacks or latinos have any inferior rights or characteristics, I wouldn't be calling you an ignoramus for claiming they did.

To the contrary, I do see Hillary and Obama pushing racial division.

If Obama and Clinton are pushing racial division, apparently it has not been in a way clear enough to attract the support of racists. Whether he intends it or not, on the other hand, Trump seems to have gained their support:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-white-supremacists_us_55dce43ee4b08cd3359dc41a

Listening to the crowds at Clinton rallies, and listening to the crowds at Trump rallies(I posted unedited footage of comments from the Trump crowds, but it was deleted and I earned a demerit for the racial profanity they were yelling, my bad), I really don't see the same degree of racial animosity expressed by the Clinton crowds as those at Trump rallies. So, if Hillary is a racist as you claim, she needs to speak up more in that vein if she really wants to cut into the lead Trump enjoys among the alt right and their ilk. Trump is clobbering her among the racists; she needs to speak up if she wants their votes.

Personally, when I see the caliber of people backing Trump, well, where there is smoke, I figure there's probably a little fire, and I conclude, "nah, this is not my kind of guy".
 
Yeah, Trump being the champion for racist organizations is all by itself enough for me to #nevertrump.
 
If Obama and Clinton are pushing racial division, apparently it has not been in a way clear enough to attract the support of racists. Whether he intends it or not, on the other hand, Trump seems to have gained their support:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-white-supremacists_us_55dce43ee4b08cd3359dc41a

Listening to the crowds at Clinton rallies, and listening to the crowds at Trump rallies(I posted unedited footage of comments from the Trump crowds, but it was deleted and I earned a demerit for the racial profanity they were yelling, my bad), I really don't see the same degree of racial animosity expressed by the Clinton crowds as those at Trump rallies. So, if Hillary is a racist as you claim, she needs to speak up more in that vein if she really wants to cut into the lead Trump enjoys among the alt right and their ilk. Trump is clobbering her among the racists; she needs to speak up if she wants their votes.

Personally, when I see the caliber of people backing Trump, well, where there is smoke, I figure there's probably a little fire, and I conclude, "nah, this is not my kind of guy".
It’s worthwhile to differentiate between the minority (thousands) of Trump supporters that profit from racism and the vast majority (millions) of Trump supporters that are along for the ride, in the sense that they are likely to vote for him, but aren’t necessarily racist themselves.

Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, and now in charge of the Trump campaign, found a way to triple website traffic by moving from conservative anti-establishment to alt-right, white nationalist content. There are dozens of extreme far-right sites that have cashed in with similar success. The hate business is booming. American Renaissance is another website that is experiencing record site traffic by giving voice to those with supremacist and neo-Nazi viewpoints.

Without question there are tens of thousands of radical racists that actively support the business of hate and supremacy, however, conflating them with the average Trump voter is unfair and counterproductive. In November more than 50 million Americans will vote for Trump. Understanding the motivation, how we have reached this point in history where Trump is a viable candidate, is vital if we want to begin to address our divisive, partisan politics and our seemingly hopelessly divided country.

I see a large segment of Trump voters with ever increasing feelings of detachment and resentment and a turbulent sense of the fundamental unfairness with the direction the country is headed. Trump has tapped into this and exploited it for his own aggrandizement. Maybe a conversation on how to heal the divide won’t be possible until after the election, both Clinton and Trump and their supporters are too entrenched in the battle, too invested in the outcome to even begin to look for a way out.
 
It’s worthwhile to differentiate between the minority (thousands) of Trump supporters that profit from racism and the vast majority (millions) of Trump supporters that are along for the ride, in the sense that they are likely to vote for him, but aren’t necessarily racist themselves.

Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, and now in charge of the Trump campaign, found a way to triple website traffic by moving from conservative anti-establishment to alt-right, white nationalist content. There are dozens of extreme far-right sites that have cashed in with similar success. The hate business is booming. American Renaissance is another website that is experiencing record site traffic by giving voice to those with supremacist and neo-Nazi viewpoints.

Without question there are tens of thousands of radical racists that actively support the business of hate and supremacy, however, conflating them with the average Trump voter is unfair and counterproductive. In November more than 50 million Americans will vote for Trump. Understanding the motivation, how we have reached this point in history where Trump is a viable candidate, is vital if we want to begin to address our divisive, partisan politics and our seemingly hopelessly divided country.

I see a large segment of Trump voters with ever increasing feelings of detachment and resentment and a turbulent sense of the fundamental unfairness with the direction the country is headed. Trump has tapped into this and exploited it for his own aggrandizement. Maybe a conversation on how to heal the divide won’t be possible until after the election, both Clinton and Trump and their supporters are too entrenched in the battle, too invested in the outcome to even begin to look for a way out.

You're absolutely right, and I've always known there were good people backing Trump. I assume not everyone sees through him as easily as I do, and like any half way decent demagogue, he is skilled at playing on the emotions of the disaffected. I don't expect all his supporters can see this moment in terms of what happens when there are lots of disaffected people and along comes someone to give voice to their frustration. They will often fail to see that they are being played at such moments in history. Allowing the demagogue to assume power. As far as that conversation between the sides of a divided nation, I'm most concerned with what happens to all the anger stirred once Trump fails to win.
 
It’s worthwhile to differentiate between the minority (thousands) of Trump supporters that profit from racism and the vast majority (millions) of Trump supporters that are along for the ride, in the sense that they are likely to vote for him, but aren’t necessarily racist themselves.

Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, and now in charge of the Trump campaign, found a way to triple website traffic by moving from conservative anti-establishment to alt-right, white nationalist content. There are dozens of extreme far-right sites that have cashed in with similar success. The hate business is booming. American Renaissance is another website that is experiencing record site traffic by giving voice to those with supremacist and neo-Nazi viewpoints.

Without question there are tens of thousands of radical racists that actively support the business of hate and supremacy, however, conflating them with the average Trump voter is unfair and counterproductive. In November more than 50 million Americans will vote for Trump. Understanding the motivation, how we have reached this point in history where Trump is a viable candidate, is vital if we want to begin to address our divisive, partisan politics and our seemingly hopelessly divided country.

I see a large segment of Trump voters with ever increasing feelings of detachment and resentment and a turbulent sense of the fundamental unfairness with the direction the country is headed. Trump has tapped into this and exploited it for his own aggrandizement. Maybe a conversation on how to heal the divide won’t be possible until after the election, both Clinton and Trump and their supporters are too entrenched in the battle, too invested in the outcome to even begin to look for a way out.

This is an excellent analysis. I should include it as a quote and axpand upon it as a chapter in my book.
 
It’s worthwhile to differentiate between the minority (thousands) of Trump supporters that profit from racism and the vast majority (millions) of Trump supporters that are along for the ride, in the sense that they are likely to vote for him, but aren’t necessarily racist themselves.

Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, and now in charge of the Trump campaign, found a way to triple website traffic by moving from conservative anti-establishment to alt-right, white nationalist content. There are dozens of extreme far-right sites that have cashed in with similar success. The hate business is booming. American Renaissance is another website that is experiencing record site traffic by giving voice to those with supremacist and neo-Nazi viewpoints.

Without question there are tens of thousands of radical racists that actively support the business of hate and supremacy, however, conflating them with the average Trump voter is unfair and counterproductive. In November more than 50 million Americans will vote for Trump. Understanding the motivation, how we have reached this point in history where Trump is a viable candidate, is vital if we want to begin to address our divisive, partisan politics and our seemingly hopelessly divided country.

I see a large segment of Trump voters with ever increasing feelings of detachment and resentment and a turbulent sense of the fundamental unfairness with the direction the country is headed. Trump has tapped into this and exploited it for his own aggrandizement. Maybe a conversation on how to heal the divide won’t be possible until after the election, both Clinton and Trump and their supporters are too entrenched in the battle, too invested in the outcome to even begin to look for a way out.

Your comments deserve a much better effort to respond thoughtfully on my part then I provided in my hurried reply last night.

I am going to hold Trump responsible for two developments which result from decisions he made in his run for the Presidency. One was his choice of rhetoric that would appeal to individuals and groups on the far right of the spectrum, and particularly using rhetoric that would encourage racists and white nationalist to assume Trump was as close to being one of them as they were going to see running for the office. His rhetoric has appealed to people's fears in a society undergoing great cultural(the culture wars) and social(the browning of our demographics)change. He has provided scapegoats(as most demagogues are wont to do) upon which to project fear and anger. Particularly where racists are concerned, the rise of Trump is bound to appear to be a legitimization of their points of view. His appearance at this time, using the rhetoric he does, is bound to be seen as an encouraging sign that the extreme right has the opportunity to go mainstream in a big way, by electing someone who talks as if he is sympathetic to their views.

The other development for which I hold Trump responsible is his evolving effort to de legitimize a Clinton Presidency by suggesting voter fraud (specifically voter ID fraud, since he has specifically criticized the courts for recent strike downs of GOP sponsored voter ID fraud legislation) would be the reason Clinton wins. Several times in recent weeks he has suggested that only by cheating can Hillary beat him. Yet, anybody who researches the subject, including the courts who have struck down the voter ID laws, knows voter ID fraud is nearly non existent. Courts have been saying the laws are designed to prevent a problem that does not even exist. But millions of voters will buy into Trump's declarations that Clinton can only win if our election system is rigged in her favor.

It's the results of his efforts, particularly if Clinton wins, that concern me the most. He did not create the fear and anger present among segments of American society. But he has inspired those who are fearful/anxiety ridden, and angry at our state of affairs. And in the wake of a Clinton victory, those folks are not going anywhere now that they have had a candidate willing to be their voice throughout this election cycle. The other unfortunate circumstances that will result from the things Trump has focused on is a groundswell of opinion that the Clinton Presidency is a fraud, the direct result of a rigged system.

So, these two elements, large segments of the population encouraged to focus on scapegoats as the cause of their problems, in this case those scapegoats ID 'd by Trump being illegal immigrants and Muslems, and vocal elements insistent that a Clinton Presidency is illegitimate, can not bode well for the health of the body politic entering 2017. It seems to me these developments will likely be damaging to our politics and society. And I will hold Trump directly responsible for such a state of affairs. He has laid the groundwork for such a damaging state of affairs post 2016 election.

It is very important to understand the forces at work in American society over recent years and decades that would permit, not just the rise of Trump, but the reasons for his great success. A demagogue will understand what fears and anxieties infects large segments of their societies, and how to marshall those anxieties to his advantage. Trump has assumed that role very well. And he has transformed the election process itself into a version of a long running reality TV series. The latter was his stroke of genius during the GOP debates. Simply knowing the audience would love his political in correctness, would love his personal attacks. Nobody said the people would need to hear high brow arguments in those debates; let's make them anything goes slug fests instead. Great TV, tune in next week to see The Donald take on Bush's mommy.

Bottom line for me, and what I most resent about Trump, is what I see as his extreme irresponsibility in adopting rhetoric that would appeal to extreme right wing elements, especially of the racist stripe, and deliberately laying the foundation for viewing a Clinton Presidency as a fraud, as illegitimate. Both are damaging to our politics and society. I don't blame the majority of his supporters. I don't blame the fears, anger, and anxieties of the disaffected. I blame him. Period. His efforts in this regard have been deliberate. And, IMO, the height of irresponsibility with respect to the health of our body politic.
 
Your comments deserve a much better effort to respond thoughtfully on my part then I provided in my hurried reply last night.

I am going to hold Trump responsible for two developments which result from decisions he made in his run for the Presidency. One was his choice of rhetoric that would appeal to individuals and groups on the far right of the spectrum, and particularly using rhetoric that would encourage racists and white nationalist to assume Trump was as close to being one of them as they were going to see running for the office. His rhetoric has appealed to people's fears in a society undergoing great cultural(the culture wars) and social(the browning of our demographics)change. He has provided scapegoats(as most demagogues are wont to do) upon which to project fear and anger. Particularly where racists are concerned, the rise of Trump is bound to appear to be a legitimization of their points of view. His appearance at this time, using the rhetoric he does, is bound to be seen as an encouraging sign that the extreme right has the opportunity to go mainstream in a big way, by electing someone who talks as if he is sympathetic to their views.

The other development for which I hold Trump responsible is his evolving effort to de legitimize a Clinton Presidency by suggesting voter fraud (specifically voter ID fraud, since he has specifically criticized the courts for recent strike downs of GOP sponsored voter ID fraud legislation) would be the reason Clinton wins. Several times in recent weeks he has suggested that only by cheating can Hillary beat him. Yet, anybody who researches the subject, including the courts who have struck down the voter ID laws, knows voter ID fraud is nearly non existent. Courts have been saying the laws are designed to prevent a problem that does not even exist. But millions of voters will buy into Trump's declarations that Clinton can only win if our election system is rigged in her favor.

It's the results of his efforts, particularly if Clinton wins, that concern me the most. He did not create the fear and anger present among segments of American society. But he has inspired those who are fearful/anxiety ridden, and angry at our state of affairs. And in the wake of a Clinton victory, those folks are not going anywhere now that they have had a candidate willing to be their voice throughout this election cycle. The other unfortunate circumstances that will result from the things Trump has focused on is a groundswell of opinion that the Clinton Presidency is a fraud, the direct result of a rigged system.

So, these two elements, large segments of the population encouraged to focus on scapegoats as the cause of their problems, in this case those scapegoats ID 'd by Trump being illegal immigrants and Muslems, and vocal elements insistent that a Clinton Presidency is illegitimate, can not bode well for the health of the body politic entering 2017. It seems to me these developments will likely be damaging to our politics and society. And I will hold Trump directly responsible for such a state of affairs. He has laid the groundwork for such a damaging state of affairs post 2016 election.

It is very important to understand the forces at work in American society over recent years and decades that would permit, not just the rise of Trump, but the reasons for his great success. A demagogue will understand what fears and anxieties infects large segments of their societies, and how to marshall those anxieties to his advantage. Trump has assumed that role very well. And he has transformed the election process itself into a version of a long running reality TV series. The latter was his stroke of genius during the GOP debates. Simply knowing the audience would love his political in correctness, would love his personal attacks. Nobody said the people would need to hear high brow arguments in those debates; let's make them anything goes slug fests instead. Great TV, tune in next week to see The Donald take on Bush's mommy.

Bottom line for me, and what I most resent about Trump, is what I see as his extreme irresponsibility in adopting rhetoric that would appeal to extreme right wing elements, especially of the racist stripe, and deliberately laying the foundation for viewing a Clinton Presidency as a fraud, as illegitimate. Both are damaging to our politics and society. I don't blame the majority of his supporters. I don't blame the fears, anger, and anxieties of the disaffected. I blame him. Period. His efforts in this regard have been deliberate. And, IMO, the height of irresponsibility with respect to the health of our body politic.
I see you as a very rational guy, but I think you've spent too much time listening to the Trump hate and not enough examining who Hillary is. I believe that if she was the conservative in this race you and the media would despise her. Instead the liberals are overemphasizing every flaw they can find in Trump (and they can obviously find a lot) in order to avoid honestly investigating Hillary.

I don't think there are millions of people who believe the election will be rigged in the ways you say, but I do believe there are millions who feel that the mainstream media is on Clinton's side. It seems like they want to avoid reporting on her corruption and/or to forgive her for it, while jumping all over anything Trump says and interpreting it in the most negative way possible. I have heard reporters so emboldened by their Trump hate that they openly justify doing everything they can to derail his candidacy.

On the right wing side of thing I have heard commentators who behave in virtually the same way with regard to stopping Clinton.

My opinion is that neither of these candidates are fit for office. The fact that most people believe our only choice is between two such incredibly flawed campaigns is forcing people to justify (or attempt to overlook) gigantic flaws in the candidate they feel they must support in order to avoid the other choice. I am now firmly in the Johnson camp. My feelings are best summarized by the www.BalancedRebellion.com presentation. I know it's a long shot, but it's the only hope I can see.
 
I see you as a very rational guy, but I think you've spent too much time listening to the Trump hate and not enough examining who Hillary is. I believe that if she was the conservative in this race you and the media would despise her. Instead the liberals are overemphasizing every flaw they can find in Trump (and they can obviously find a lot) in order to avoid honestly investigating Hillary.

I don't think there are millions of people who believe the election will be rigged in the ways you say, but I do believe there are millions who feel that the mainstream media is on Clinton's side. It seems like they want to avoid reporting on her corruption and/or to forgive her for it, while jumping all over anything Trump says and interpreting it in the most negative way possible. I have heard reporters so emboldened by their Trump hate that they openly justify doing everything they can to derail his candidacy.

On the right wing side of thing I have heard commentators who behave in virtually the same way with regard to stopping Clinton.

My opinion is that neither of these candidates are fit for office. The fact that most people believe our only choice is between two such incredibly flawed campaigns is forcing people to justify (or attempt to overlook) gigantic flaws in the candidate they feel they must support in order to avoid the other choice. I am now firmly in the Johnson camp. My feelings are best summarized by the www.BalancedRebellion.com presentation. I know it's a long shot, but it's the only hope I can see.

Well, this is a very tough one for me. Maybe I was misled in high school Civics class, but we were taught one of the roles of a free press in our democracy was to act as a watch dog for the electorate. As an example, if a leader arose who was a demagogue, one role of the press was to tell the public that is exactly what that leader was. Now, one of the best examples of that was broadcast journalist Edward R. Morrow's take down of McCarthy and McCarthyism in the 50's.

In addition to Trump's understanding of his advantage if he could transform the GOP primary debates into reality TV was his equally sage understanding that, particularly where the broadcast media was concerned, they would take his every politically incorrect statement as entertainment and a ratings bonanza. Not exactly the role of journalism as watchdog. Most of the effort I have seen characterizing Trump as a demagogue, racist, etcetera has actually come from print journalism, that I can see, and less broadcast journalism. At the same time, cable news outlets definitely drive an agenda based narrative, left for MSNBC, right for Fox News.

I would submit that the liberal bias in the media is definitely causing the lean toward Clinton, and the reluctance to examine Clinton more closely may be in part due to the recognition of demagoguery on the part of Trump by the media. So, the question I might have, and which makes this tough for me, is how to separate the media acting as a proper watch dog informing the electorate on what tricks and deceptions a candidate might be practicing, and when are they simply echo chambers for the candidates of their choice.

I want more Edward R. Morrows among our print and broadcast journalists, not less. As for myself, and my biases, yes indeed, were I a journalist, I would be pulling out all the stops to make sure my readership/viewership understood Trump from the historical perspective that I like to think informs my opinions.

It's the GOP's own fault, to the degree it is their fault at all, that they did not nominate a candidate that could easily defeat this most flawed of Democratic candidates. But clearly, it seems to me, the liberal media will fear the demagogue bring elected far more then Hillary....
 
I see you as a very rational guy, but I think you've spent too much time listening to the Trump hate and not enough examining who Hillary is. I believe that if she was the conservative in this race you and the media would despise her. Instead the liberals are overemphasizing every flaw they can find in Trump (and they can obviously find a lot) in order to avoid honestly investigating Hillary.

I don't think there are millions of people who believe the election will be rigged in the ways you say, but I do believe there are millions who feel that the mainstream media is on Clinton's side. It seems like they want to avoid reporting on her corruption and/or to forgive her for it, while jumping all over anything Trump says and interpreting it in the most negative way possible. I have heard reporters so emboldened by their Trump hate that they openly justify doing everything they can to derail his candidacy.

On the right wing side of thing I have heard commentators who behave in virtually the same way with regard to stopping Clinton.

My opinion is that neither of these candidates are fit for office. The fact that most people believe our only choice is between two such incredibly flawed campaigns is forcing people to justify (or attempt to overlook) gigantic flaws in the candidate they feel they must support in order to avoid the other choice. I am now firmly in the Johnson camp. My feelings are best summarized by the www.BalancedRebellion.com presentation. I know it's a long shot, but it's the only hope I can see.

We might also keep in mind the frequency with which Trump has harshly criticized the press. At his rallies, he keeps the press separate in a caged area, often points them out and derides them, to the crowds delight, refers to them as "scum" "low lifes", "the worst", etc. He has also publicly stated that he will change libel laws if elected, to make it easier to sue the press if he thinks they are being unfair to him. Not to mention all the press credentials he has revoked if he feels the newspaper or news outlet has not been fair to him. I would submit, under those circumstances, even if they are expected to be impartial, all of these things are not likely to endear Trump to the press and news media. So, to that extent, he may also need to lay some blame at his own feet for a preponderance of bad press for Trump, and far less for Clinton. Frequent references to the press as "scum" can't be helping him with the press.
All that said, including my earlier comment, does not mean the press should not act the part of watchdog for the electorate, as my Civics class taught, with Clinton in the crosshairs as much as Trump....
 
I see you as a very rational guy, but I think you've spent too much time listening to the Trump hate and not enough examining who Hillary is. I believe that if she was the conservative in this race you and the media would despise her. Instead the liberals are overemphasizing every flaw they can find in Trump (and they can obviously find a lot) in order to avoid honestly investigating Hillary.

Maybe, just maybe, do you think that is possible, despite your best efforts to delude yourself otherwise, that Hillary is not as bad as Trump? I mean, I know you've been trying really hard to play this whole "they're both equally horrible" shtick for a while now, but have you considered that your own biases make you think the media is biased?

And come on, you can drop the charade. We know you're going to vote Trump.
 
I see you as a very rational guy, but I think you've spent too much time listening to the Trump hate and not enough examining who Hillary is. I believe that if she was the conservative in this race you and the media would despise her. Instead the liberals are overemphasizing every flaw they can find in Trump (and they can obviously find a lot) in order to avoid honestly investigating Hillary.

By way of personal aside, not quite true. Had the GOP nominated someone who did not strike me as a nut, I would be voting against Hillary. At least I believe that would be the case. I long since concluded Trump was the worse choice. There was no point in spending as much effort in examining Hillary, once I began to realize what Trump represented, a reactionary bigot. I will be voting against Trump. Since my state is not a swing state, Clinton will win RI, I have the "luxury " of voting third party. That said, it would be more likely the Green Party then Libertarian. But, I made it clear, just within this thread, from the very beginning of this thread, that I see Trump as a demagogue, using the tricks of that trade. And I seldom, if ever, have seen that work out in other nations, at other times. As I think I have put it, at least once, I will take the crook, thank you, over a demagogue who uses the rhetoric that man uses. It would be very hard for me to visualize myself voting for the same guy all the white nationalists will be voting for...
 
Back
Top