***Official new head coach search thread*** (merged)
- Thread starter Beantown
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[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];824893 said:
I think the thinking here is that John would prefer the assistant job. He is definitely not hurting for money. He probably has more money than any of us will ever see. Maybe even more than Professor NaOS or PKM.
Yeah, if Stock were to be a bad head coach, he would take a different role with the team. That is not quitting.
What about Bill Russell? Yes, his years with Seattle and Sacramento was less than stellar, but you can't discount his time as player/coach, can you?
David Ginola 14
Well-Known Member
@1280Spence: RT @WojYahooNBA Jazz have been granted permission to interview Bulls assistant Adrian Griffin for head coaching job, sources tell Yahoo.
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
He's supposed to be the early front runner for the Cavs job
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
Bill Russell won 3 NBA Championships as a coach. Of course he had Bill Russell as a player on those teams.
SojoDave
Well-Known Member
Bill Russel had a great career as a player, but as GM, he was a disaster. When he was GM of Seattle, he would roll into the office at noon and blow out of there at 2. The office staff rarely saw him and he would disappear for weeks at a time. Sacramento had some horrible draft picks under him and I still can't believe he drafted Pervis Ellison number one.
David Ginola 14
Well-Known Member
@SpearsNBAYahoo: The Jazz, Cavs, Warriors & Wolves have shown interest in Lionel Hollins for head coach openings, a source said. The Lakers, Knicks have not.
I would rather it be vice versa because I wouldn't miss any halftime assistant speeches.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Considering what SVG and Kerr have been asking for, it's no wonder the Jazz never got close to interviewing them.
At least we're hearing names besides Boylen. So if The Messina doesn't come to Utah, there might still be some hope.
At least we're hearing names besides Boylen. So if The Messina doesn't come to Utah, there might still be some hope.
Sean
Well-Known Member
The problem with comparing a legend's playing career to their coaching career is that every situation is different. Larry Bird inherited a fantastic franchise that was a consistent winner throughout the 1990s. It's not like he was tasked with rebuilding an entire team. Yes, he elevated the club after a surprising losing season (which happened under another NBA legend - Larry Brown, who, nowadays, seems to be infallible) and nearly beat the Bulls in '98, but this was a franchise only two years removed from the Conference Finals (again losing in seven - this time to Orlando) and had one of the better players in the 90s on their roster (Reggie, of course). Oddly, his replacement, another legend (Isiah Thomas), nearly ruined the franchise. Again - not everything is equal.
Bill Russell, as mentioned, had Bill Russell when he coached and it's not like the Celtics were hurting at the end of the Red Auerbach era - they won 8 straight NBA titles. Even then, Russell's regular season record was far less impressive than Auerbach - going 60-21 (lost division finals to the Sixers), 54-28 and then 48-24. So, there was a notable regression, even though he did manage two titles of his own. K.C. Jones is another example of a player coming over to coach and succeeding - but, really, like Russell, he inherited a strong franchise and one of the best players in the history of the game.
So, it's hard to say what Stockton would do. It's probably one of the more riskier hires the Jazz can make, but if it works out, it'd be almost too perfect.
Ideally, Stock comes back and leads the Jazz back to glory. Realistically? It's probably, like with most coaching hires, a crap shoot.
Interesting enough, no one seems to be mentioning Sloan. He, like Stockton here at Utah, was a legend in Chicago when he took over as coach there and, while he didn't do terribly, he still didn't do all that great, either, and ultimately got the ol' Windy City Heave-Ho.
Bill Russell, as mentioned, had Bill Russell when he coached and it's not like the Celtics were hurting at the end of the Red Auerbach era - they won 8 straight NBA titles. Even then, Russell's regular season record was far less impressive than Auerbach - going 60-21 (lost division finals to the Sixers), 54-28 and then 48-24. So, there was a notable regression, even though he did manage two titles of his own. K.C. Jones is another example of a player coming over to coach and succeeding - but, really, like Russell, he inherited a strong franchise and one of the best players in the history of the game.
So, it's hard to say what Stockton would do. It's probably one of the more riskier hires the Jazz can make, but if it works out, it'd be almost too perfect.
Ideally, Stock comes back and leads the Jazz back to glory. Realistically? It's probably, like with most coaching hires, a crap shoot.
Interesting enough, no one seems to be mentioning Sloan. He, like Stockton here at Utah, was a legend in Chicago when he took over as coach there and, while he didn't do terribly, he still didn't do all that great, either, and ultimately got the ol' Windy City Heave-Ho.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Was going to mention Sloan, who was Corbin-like in Chicago. Of the top-15 coaches in terms of total wins in the NBA, there really isn't any correlation between having a great NBA career, average career or even playing pro basketball at all. It's a mixed bag.
| Don Nelson | 15 yr career (mainly with Boston), Avg 10 pts/5 rebs. | HOF as coach |
| Lenny Wilkens | 14 yr career (mainly with St. Louis), Avg 17/7/5 | HOF as player AND coach |
| Jerry Sloan | 15 yr career (mainly with Chicago), Avg 14/7 | HOF as coach |
| Pat Riley | 9 yr career (mainly with LAL), Avg 7 pts | HOF as coach |
| Phil Jackson | 11 yr career (mainly with NYK), Avg 7/4 | HOF as coach |
| George Karl | 5 yr career with SA (ABA and NBA), Avg 7 pts | HOF: TBD |
| Larry Brown | 5 yr career with 5 ABA teams, Avg 11/7 | HOF as coach |
| Rick Adelman | 7 yr career with 5 NBA teams, Avg 8/4/2 | HOF: TBD |
| Greg Popovich | No Pro Basketball experience as player | HOF: TBD |
| Bill Fitch | No Pro Basketball experience as player. | None |
| Red Auerbach | No Pro Basketball experience as player | HOF as coach |
| Dick Motta | No Pro Basketball experience as player | None |
| Jack Ramsey | Pro in Eastern PA league | HOF as coach |
| Cotton Fitzsimmons | No Pro Basketball experience as player | None |
| Gene Shue | 10 yr career (mainly with Det), Avg 14/4/4 | None |
[TD="class: xl65"]Name[/TD]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 499"]Career as Player[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 225"]HOF?[/TD]
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D
Deleted member 848
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As logic would indicate. The whole "great players never make great coaches" statement is plain moronic, in my opinion. It's equally moronic to saying "you can't be a great coach unless you were a great player".
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yet only ONE hall-of-fame player is top-15 in terms of wins (Wilkens). Sloan may have been close if not for his injury. Guys like Nelson, Riley, Jackson, Brown: decent rotation players, but not even close to HOF or even all-star caliber. And 6 of the 15 never even played in the ABA or NBA. So it is RARE that a HOF player also becomes a great coach. I'd say it's much more common for a career coach (i.e. went straight from playing in college into coaching) to be successful, or a player that had bounced around a bit during his NBA days.
You're probably right that many more great coaches were career coaches or journeyman players. But there are also just a lot more career coaches or journeyman players than HOF players. So it would take more work to show that it's more likely that career coaches or journeyman players are more likely than HOF players to become great coaches.
Your point may still hold. But there's a bit more work to do.
Yeah, Cartwright and Rambis were real stars in this league.
Not sure if I skipped while browsing through the thread:
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/466649025547370499
Apparently interested in Adrian Griffin
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/466649025547370499
Apparently interested in Adrian Griffin
Does this mean my Messina wet dream is over? Why are they interviewing him if Messina is a lock?