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Okay, ******, I've asked this before, but

Dr. Jones

Dr. Jones

In pursuit of #9
Contributor
why does *nearly* everyone insist that our future relies on Sap 'being able to play SF?'

I am open-minded (not on all things, but this, definitely), but GH seems, to me, like a FUTURE stud SF, not SG. Is this whole thing trying to cram a round-peg into a square-hole? Or am I just way off on how I see GH's future in the NBA?
 
PKM said:
why does *nearly* everyone insist that our future relies on Sap 'being able to play SF?'

I am open-minded (not on all things, but this, definitely), but GH seems, to me, like a FUTURE stud SF, not SG. Is this whole thing trying to cram a round-peg into a square-hole? Or am I just way off on how I see GH's future in the NBA?
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I agree with you. I can see it making sense for Sap to play SF is very limited situations but I would rather have him off the bench dominating every other back up PF in the league.

I like the idea of GH playing SG in limited situations as well. I am mostly trying to stay open minded with that in case the Jazz are able to land a stud SF like Miller, Barnes or K-G in the draft. If the Jazz could land one of them then I would like to see GH move more to the SG and possibly Burks to the PG position. I know that there are a lot of hypotheticals in that statement but I like to remain optimistic.
 
I always saw Hayward as a SG/SF like Mike Dunleavy. I see Millsap as a SF/PF and not a fulltime SF. If Millsap comes off the bench, this scenario works, but if he starts at SF we may be approaching round peg in square hole.
 
I think the theory is that it gives him an extra position to play (and can concievebly have any 3 person combo of Sap/Al/Favors/Kanter on the floor, which would also make the team incredibly tall with Hayward at the 2), and that most people (I'm still up in the air) believe Hayward's future as a stud is at the 2 where his height and length can effectively guard other 2s.

Though if Hayward does become a stud at the 3 and Burks becomes one at the 2 then Sap is just another piece of a potential loaded bench, if he will accept that role.
 
Cool (and thanks for the response). I love the idea of using Sap in isolated instances/matchups at the SF spot. I love the idea of the same for GH at the 2. I just don't see either of those positions being their natural spots and sincerely wondering if I'm just missing something about their games.

I suspect it more has to do with JazzFanz not being accustomed to going out and picking up elite talent .. and therefore just cram players into positions that allow us to get the 5 best players on the floor, regardless.

Still open.
 
Milsap's greatest value will be to become the leagues best 6th man, and best PF off the bench. As a starting power forward he rates somewhere between 12-20th in the league... Good enough to start on a non playoff team or first round exit team, but not the PF of a championship contender. But, But, But as a 6th man, he is a beast, and with the new collective bargaining rules we stand the best shot at keeping him. No one will be able to offer him more than the mid-level and his value will always be highest to the Jazz. The sooner the Jazz make the decision in my opinion the better, because the sooner Favors progresses into a stud worthy of playing ahead of Milsap, the sooner Milsap will accept a backup role.

If Favors excels by the end of the year as well as Kanter we could see Jefferson be the one to leave for a coveted final piece.

I see Hayward as our SF of the future, Burks as the SG of the future, and the GSW pick at the PG of the future.
 
blackham9258 said:
Milsap's greatest value will be to become the leagues best 6th man, and best PF off the bench. As a starting power forward he rates somewhere between 12-20th in the league... Good enough to start on a non playoff team or first round exit team, but not the PF of a championship contender. But, But, But as a 6th man, he is a beast, and with the new collective bargaining rules we stand the best shot at keeping him. No one will be able to offer him more than the mid-level and his value will always be highest to the Jazz. The sooner the Jazz make the decision in my opinion the better, because the sooner Favors progresses into a stud worthy of playing ahead of Milsap, the sooner Milsap will accept a backup role.

If Favors excels by the end of the year as well as Kanter we could see Jefferson be the one to leave for a coveted final piece.

I see Hayward as our SF of the future, Burks as the SG of the future, and the GSW pick at the PG of the future.
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Great post. Except I'm not sure the GSW pick will snag a PG of the future.
 
orangello said:
I agree with you. I can see it making sense for Sap to play SF is very limited situations but I would rather have him off the bench dominating every other back up PF in the league.

I like the idea of GH playing SG in limited situations as well. I am mostly trying to stay open minded with that in case the Jazz are able to land a stud SF like Miller, Barnes or K-G in the draft. If the Jazz could land one of them then I would like to see GH move more to the SG and possibly Burks to the PG position. I know that there are a lot of hypotheticals in that statement but I like to remain optimistic.
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I'm still not sure that Barnes would push ahead of Hayward in the rotation at SF. I think if we can get Quincy Miller, it makes sense to put him at SF and bring either Burks or Hayward off the bench. If Burks could play PG, like really play PG, that would be a coup. Meanwhile, Hayward can probably play either wing position, depending on match-ups.
 
I believe that Millsap is already the best PF coming off the bench on the league. The only two people that I can think of that could possibly rival them are Lamar Odom and Taj Gibson. Personally I would take Millsap over both of them. They are both too inconstant for me.

The sooner Millsap realizes that he will help the team more (and put up better numbers) coming off the bench the better the Jazz are as an organization.
 
Catchall said:
I'm still not sure that Barnes would push ahead of Hayward in the rotation at SF. I think if we can get Quincy Miller, it makes sense to put him at SF and bring either Burks or Hayward off the bench. If Burks could play PG, like really play PG, that would be a coup. Meanwhile, Hayward can probably play either wing position, depending on match-ups.
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/removingNOTEgoggles

I really like GH. I think either Barnes or QMiller are better SF's, easily (blast, don't care). I also think Burks is a 2, period. Spot minutes at PG, maybe, but a 2.

Bottom line. I think it's great to have players that can cover multiple positions on the floor (I really do), but it RARELY works to, in reality, play them outside of their obvious natural position. I think Burks is a SG, GH is a SF, and Sap is a PF. None of them may be a perfect fit at those positions, none of them may be all-stars, but it's what they are .. and they're good. Let it be and continue to build.
 
orangello said:
I believe that Millsap is already the best PF coming off the bench on the league. The only two people that I can think of that could possibly rival them are Lamar Odom and Taj Gibson. Personally I would take Millsap over both of them. They are both too inconstant for me.

The sooner Millsap realizes that he will help the team more (and put up better numbers) coming off the bench the better the Jazz are as an organization.
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Another good post. What I like about Sap over those other guys (among other things) is his blue collar work ethic .. his "do-it-or-die-in-the-attempt" mentality. A skilled 6th man with that attitude is nearly priceless.
 
I think Hayward can have success at either the 2 or the 3, although due to his size and wingspan he may have some issues guarding some of the bigger, more physical SF's in the league. With his handle and ability to pass directly off the bounce - if he shows the improved shooting stroke he did at the end of last season Hayward could easily be a natural fit at SG. I think Sap will ultimately be a PF - hopefully in a 6th-man role that made him one of the most effective and efficient PF's in that role for the Jazz from 2008-10.

I think people see how Sap's size as a starting PF hurt us on the glass last year, they see his improved shooting range and like the idea of getting him on the floor along with Favors and Jefferson/Kanter. As mentioned - in select matchups I think it could work but IMO he will still be a highly effective player for us at PF.

(sidenote: I'm not of the opinion we need to draft our "PG of the future." I think we have enough young players w/potential at other positions that what we may need most next year is a veteran PG to run the show and bring leadership to all the young talent we have. I think it's important to have balance and I don't like the idea of building around an unsustainable 5-man lineup of 20-yr old lottery picks - but that's something that can be debated in the future.)
 
I agree with the original post. Millsap is not a SF, and Hayward is hardly a SG.

I also agree that Millsap needs to be coming off the bench. He's absolutely 6MOTY material, and Favors really needs starting minutes for the future of this franchise.
 
PKM said:
Another good post. What I like about Sap over those other guys (among other things) is his blue collar work ethic .. his "do-it-or-die-in-the-attempt" mentality. A skilled 6th man with that attitude is nearly priceless.
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That is my biggest concern for the new season, Millsap's attitude. I hope that he will take a 6th man role but I fear it will lead to the end of the Millsap and Jazz relationship. He is a good player. Unfortunately, the only thing that he doesn't have is height and that is a big deal when you have to play the Lakers, Dallas or OKC and the road to a championship will go through one of those places.
 
vslice02 said:
I think Hayward can have success at either the 2 or the 3, although due to his size and wingspan he may have some issues guarding some of the bigger, more physical SF's in the league. With his handle and ability to pass directly off the bounce - if he shows the improved shooting stroke he did at the end of last season Hayward could easily be a natural fit at SG. I think Sap will ultimately be a PF - hopefully in a 6th-man role that made him one of the most effective and efficient PF's in that role for the Jazz from 2008-10.

I think people see how Sap's size as a starting PF hurt us on the glass last year, they see his improved shooting range and like the idea of getting him on the floor along with Favors and Jefferson/Kanter. As mentioned - in select matchups I think it could work but IMO he will still be a highly effective player for us at PF.

(sidenote: I'm not of the opinion we need to draft our "PG of the future." I think we have enough young players w/potential at other positions that what we may need most next year is a veteran PG to run the show and bring leadership to all the young talent we have. I think it's important to have balance and I don't like the idea of building around an unsustainable 5-man lineup of 20-yr old lottery picks - but that's something that can be debated in the future.)
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At this point, I'd say our best option is to go after a guy like Holiday or Knight with our trade assets, cause the PG's of this draft seem very iffy so far. Although, I do agree we'll need a balance of vets and younger players, I just don't think NOW is the time to go after those veteran players; wait till our young guys develop a few years, THEN figure out exactly what we need to finish the equation.
 
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