I am not sure why some people here are so eager to stockpile draft picks, as if we already dont have quite a few youngsters already. It is one thing if the pick would pan out. Its also another thing whether if the pick does pan out, whether the Jazz will be able to retain all their picks when their rookie contracts are up. Unless you draft a Kevin Durant type talent(which doesnt happen often) whom you will go to any end to sign up, I dont see the point in stockpiling more Gordon Hayward like picks. Time for KOC to pull up his socks and get creative with trades.
One sobering incident sums up this Jazz team
- Thread starter YB85
- Start date
VJ! haven't seen you in ages.
He has a good point. A lot of players take a long time to become good, and when they do, they are playing for a team that didn't draft them.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
So tanking the season and hopping for losses is your way of standing your ground. Your an idiot way to contradict your self. With that said I agree with what you said about Hayward. I'm confrontational by nature, if I were Hayward I'd have gotten in his face and let him know how I felt about it, and gotten a "T". The next time we played the wolves I'd have knocked him on his *** the first chance I got.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Looking at the video of the play and in defense of Hayward it looked as though he didn't notice That stupid little hobbit till it was too late. It looked like he was looking at the floor when he got shoved.
However thinking about it I'd have turned around and gone after him! Or yelled some choice words back at him.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I hope Bell or Watson are smart enough to tell Hayward to retaliate the next time they play.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I agree. But with another lottery pick, KOC has more ammo. If the Jazz end up with say the 9th and 12th picks (GS' and their own), KOC could probably trade up to #4 or $5 if he wanted. So maybe KOC moves up to get a starting wing. Or perhaps the two lottery picks are packaged in deals to get veteran starters. Point is, a lottery pick in this draft is probably a lot more valuable than in the last couple of drafts.
Yea so we can get more overpaid average vets. The draft is unknown but when was the last time the Jazz got a Kevin Durant like player in a trade. At least the draft has the possibility of getting a great player, besides the fact how do you know we will draft two more Haywards? You don't.
Making trades can come with huge financial risk. When you get a player like Harris then you are stuck with him and his lousy contract because he isn't good anymore. Now you just have to wait until is contract is done or expiring to get rid of him. So two year has passed and you are back in the lottery hoping to score big or worse case scenario the organization is dumb enough to re-sign him (Harping and Memo). Drafting players is a smaller financial risk if the player doesn't pan out. While the possibility of getting a great player is in the draft because Utah is not going to sign Lebron or Kobe to a contract.
I am sure experience has soem role in how they react but it is more the type of person they are that determines how they react. hayward is not that tough player that would stand his ground. I can see Burks and Kanter standing their ground.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
Archie- He is saying that this is WHY he missed the free throw. Barea was playing with his mind and it worked. You could see him setting it up, walking an arch inside the lane ( a circle ) a circle that would cross paths with
the middle of the free throw line where Hayward was standing. He pretended to just be pumping up his team mates but when he walked into Hayward he just kind of bumped/forced him out of his stance.
Many players once they take position at the line never are comfortable moving again Why, did he do this? He was saying i think you are mentally weak and this might disturb you. I also believe it did. Did not in itself cost us the game, but it could of. Hayward just yielded. If he held and forced a full collision with Barea it would of exposed what he was doing and i believe a technical foul may have been called. It was that obvious what he was doing.
mellow
Well-Known Member
Gordon was a target by Barea, and he was a target for Mo Williams. He atleast did something about Mo, but it wasn't enough to stop Barea. Is he doing something that sends the message that he will back down? If so, he will continue to be a target and a victum until he learns some in game tricks to give it back a little bit, or until he knocks somebody down hard.
Can't they get Stockton in to teach him a few dirty little tricks he can pull in the game to let the other teams know they can't just abuse him?
Can't they get Stockton in to teach him a few dirty little tricks he can pull in the game to let the other teams know they can't just abuse him?
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It appeared as though it took him by surprise and Barea only nudged him, but you see clearly it was intentional by the way he raised his elbow into Hayward. The league ought to review it and give him a T.
A saavy vet might've raised up a leg making himself a little off balance so that the little nudge would've forced him back on his butt, with a little bit of acting of course. Then they'd have had no recourse but to call a T.
A saavy vet might've raised up a leg making himself a little off balance so that the little nudge would've forced him back on his butt, with a little bit of acting of course. Then they'd have had no recourse but to call a T.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I thought he handled Mo Williams well.
mellow
Well-Known Member
Yea, I did too, so my comment sucked. Let me try to say it another way.
I don't care about a retroactive technical. I wanted Hayward to step up and let Samwise Gamgee know that he wasn't going to be intimidated. Instead, the opposite happened.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
I
Correct! Repped for mentioning Sam.
you guys are funny....again making such a huge deal over one little thing...
I find this very interesting, and a bit amusing.. What are the f'g rules? Why don't the Jazz have somebody walk into the lane every time an opponent is preparing to shoot his 2nd freethrow, and give each of his teammates instructions for getting the rebound and a pep talk, and then get in the face of the free throw shooter and talk trash to him. Is this allowed? Two refs were standing right there, they didn't notice what Barrea was doing? Were they both high on drugs? Did Barrea buy them the drugs? What the hell is going on???
I think Harris and Watson and Tinsley can do this if it is allowed. Even without bumping the guy, they should be able to annoy the freethrow shooters enough to knock several points of opponents totals in a typical game, considering all the foul shots refs give our opponents.
I find this very interesting, and a bit amusing.. What are the f'g rules? Why don't the Jazz have somebody walk into the lane every time an opponent is preparing to shoot his 2nd freethrow, and give each of his teammates instructions for getting the rebound and a pep talk, and then get in the face of the free throw shooter and talk trash to him. Is this allowed? Two refs were standing right there, they didn't notice what Barrea was doing? Were they both high on drugs? Did Barrea buy them the drugs? What the hell is going on???
I think Harris and Watson and Tinsley can do this if it is allowed. Even without bumping the guy, they should be able to annoy the freethrow shooters enough to knock several points of opponents totals in a typical game, considering all the foul shots refs give our opponents.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Utah needed Jeff Hornacek in uniform for that - not to shoot the FT's but to defend Hayward against Barea.
Is there historical precedent for retaliating against Barea?
We all know there have been numerous incidents where a player whispers or says something to another player before he shoots free throws (2006: LeBron to Arenas, 1998: Derrick McKey to Scottie Pippen, 1997: Pippen to Malone) but after what Pippen said in Game 1 - in Game 4 of the '97 Finals Malone was again preparing to shoot huge free throws and Pippen planned on trying to get in his head - only Jeff Hornacek wouldn't let Scottie come anywhere near Karl and forced the refs to separate them from their little slap fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STnBpUFM98Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL#t=10m37s
Now you can argue making an incident out of that only amplifies the situation and provides more of a distraction - but to me it's still part of a bigger message that comes down to either standing up for yourself and your teammates or backing down and letting other players walk all over you (or in this case through you). When you think about the Favors/Dirk incident earlier and now this - these young guys can have all the potential in the world but until they develop some toughness they're in for an asskicking every night.
I don't like the physical contact-part but talking, changing lane positions at the last minute - that's all gamesmanship that's part of being a competitor. You've got to be tougher (physically and mentally) to overcome those things if you want to win in this league.
Is there historical precedent for retaliating against Barea?
We all know there have been numerous incidents where a player whispers or says something to another player before he shoots free throws (2006: LeBron to Arenas, 1998: Derrick McKey to Scottie Pippen, 1997: Pippen to Malone) but after what Pippen said in Game 1 - in Game 4 of the '97 Finals Malone was again preparing to shoot huge free throws and Pippen planned on trying to get in his head - only Jeff Hornacek wouldn't let Scottie come anywhere near Karl and forced the refs to separate them from their little slap fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STnBpUFM98Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL#t=10m37s
Now you can argue making an incident out of that only amplifies the situation and provides more of a distraction - but to me it's still part of a bigger message that comes down to either standing up for yourself and your teammates or backing down and letting other players walk all over you (or in this case through you). When you think about the Favors/Dirk incident earlier and now this - these young guys can have all the potential in the world but until they develop some toughness they're in for an asskicking every night.
I don't like the physical contact-part but talking, changing lane positions at the last minute - that's all gamesmanship that's part of being a competitor. You've got to be tougher (physically and mentally) to overcome those things if you want to win in this league.
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