What's new
By:

Paris under attack

addictionary said:
...Read the books and make up your own mind.

If there is humanity left in you, then you will find the truth no matter what religion you practice or find it in your seeking of knowledge as an Atheist.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how true this is. I remember several conversations I had a long time ago with Muslim colleagues of my husband's about the concept of free will. I'd don't think I have enough brain power to recall exactly what was said, but it boiled down to the idea that their concept of free will was radically different than mine. I was brought up with the belief that it is good to question things, but their background and belief system seemed to totally preclude any questioning of what they consider to be God's word or God's will.
 
Sirkickyass said:
*Obvious punchline*

When Syria becomes a place where a citizen can successfully petition to wear a pasta strainer on their head for "religious reasons," then ISIL/ISIS is effectively dead.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...etti-monster-massachusetts-religion/75862946/

Ideas are powerful. Funny ideas are attractive. You win ideological wars with ideas. There's a reason the targets are more cultural targets than government or military oriented.
Click to expand...

The "hearts and minds" approach seems like the right approach but how do you achieve this? That's the million dollar question. I mean, the changes we're talking about are generational in nature.

I'd also like to know if we have any Iranian folk on the board and if so, if they are of age, could they maybe give us a point in the right direction in knowing what happened in Iran from the early 1970's to now. It seems as though that country went backwards in thought.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96k_8ywt22g

I provided examples based on our data on the financing of different Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) units by private individuals. This money, as we have established, comes from 40 countries and, there are some of the G20 members among them...

I’ve shown our colleagues photos taken from space and from aircraft which clearly demonstrate the scale of the illegal trade in oil and petroleum products," he said.

The motorcade of refueling vehicles stretched for dozens of kilometers, so that from a height of 4,000 to 5,000 meters they stretch beyond the horizon...

We need to organize work specifically concentrated on the prevention of terrorist attacks and tackling terrorism on a global scale. We offered to cooperate [with the US] in anti-IS efforts. Unfortunately, our American partners refused. They just sent a written note and it says: ‘we reject your offer’,” Putin said.

But life is always evolving and at a very fast pace, often teaching us lessons. And I think that now the realization that an effective fight [against terror] can only be staged together is coming to everybody...
Click to expand...
 
dalamon said:
Fantastic article in the Times, translated from French. Goes over why the ME hasn't jointly killed ISIS

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/...-isis.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=
Click to expand...


Sorry to speak unrelated to the topic but the article says Kurdistan Workers Party to open PKK which is true as a translation but in context they are not a political party or a leftist workers' party. They are a militia group. And they even do not allow their political wing in the Turkish parliament to democratically solve the Kurdish issue of Turkey because they know that this will leave PKK as an unnecessary cause and as militias that have spent their lives in fighting and know nothing else they will be left to void. They are a pretty good propaganda organisation in the Western society so I needed to step in and inform you guys.
 
moevillini said:
I'm not sure how true this is. I remember several conversations I had a long time ago with Muslim colleagues of my husband's about the concept of free will. I'd don't think I have enough brain power to recall exactly what was said, but it boiled down to the idea that their concept of free will was radically different than mine. I was brought up with the belief that it is good to question things, but their background and belief system seemed to totally preclude any questioning of what they consider to be God's word or God's will.
Click to expand...

Again, I'm sorry that I cannot back it up with a story or something. Yes most Muslims especially the conservatives are like that. They do not question or debate. I just can assure you that I am not alone and there are Muslims in the world that feel the solidarity and union of humans as a whole is not something that Islam forbids or stands in the way of. We are the same. We should respect each other's religion or culture and everything will be fine. Freedom's description is simple. Don't crap on other people's freedom's and you are free to do anything you like.
 
addictionary said:
Sorry to speak unrelated to the topic but the article says Kurdistan Workers Party to open PKK which is true as a translation but in context they are not a political party or a leftist workers' party. They are a militia group. And they even do not allow their political wing in the Turkish parliament to democratically solve the Kurdish issue of Turkey because they know that this will leave PKK as an unnecessary cause and as militias that have spent their lives in fighting and know nothing else they will be left to void. They are a pretty good propaganda organisation in the Western society so I needed to step in and inform you guys.
Click to expand...

double
 
addictionary said:
Sorry to speak unrelated to the topic but the article says Kurdistan Workers Party to open PKK which is true as a translation but in context they are not a political party or a leftist workers' party. They are a militia group. And they even do not allow their political wing in the Turkish parliament to democratically solve the Kurdish issue of Turkey because they know that this will leave PKK as an unnecessary cause and as militias that have spent their lives in fighting and know nothing else they will be left to void. They are a pretty good propaganda organisation in the Western society so I needed to step in and inform you guys.
Click to expand...

I think peaceful Kurdish ppl being treated fairly and equally under Erdogan is even more unrealistic than a Basque country.
 
BTP said:
I think peaceful Kurdish ppl being treated fairly and equally under Adolf Erdogan is even more unrealistic than a Basque country.
Click to expand...


Agree with you on both posts.



But they were shoulder to shoulder in the early years of Erdoğan to demolish their common enemy, Atatürk and the founding values of Turkish Republic like laicism and nationalism.
 
addictionary said:
Agree with you on both posts.



But they were shoulder to shoulder in the early years of Erdoğan to demolish their common enemy, Atatürk and the founding values of Turkish Republic like laicism and nationalism.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify: I'm neither supporting what either the PKK terrorists nor what the Basque ETA are doing. I just "understand" where they are coming from and why these extremists think they have to do it like that. When an ethnic/religious group is being discriminated like that, that's a hard pill to swallow.
 
BTP said:
Just to clarify: I'm neither supporting what either the PKK terrorists nor what the Basque ETA are doing. I just "understand" where they are coming from and why these extremists think they have to do it like that. When an ethnic/religious group is being discriminated like that, that's a hard pill to swallow.
Click to expand...


Absolutely. And that is exactly what Erdoğan and PKK are trying to do. Keep the fighting go on. That's what I have said in the upper post. The political wing of PKK started a campaign to become a Turkish Republic party and speak for everyone not only Kurds, but this made them become powerful with support from leftist Turks of the country and PKK said "Halt. This is too much power. If you succeed this way, I will be put back to shelf in a matter of moment" So they too benefit from the existence of the violent struggle. The sides who feast upon blood want bloodshed to go on. The rest wants it to stop.

If PKK closed down, I would vote for HDP their political wing since they would represent my leftist political views and there would be no more blood of my Turkish brothers left lying on the ground.

There is absolutely no reason for Kurds and Turks not to solve this peacefully but someone from inside of both sides tackles it at each dawn of a peaceful act.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BTP
In general I think the key to "solving" a refugee crisis is creating/offering a perspective for the children of migrants. I feel like that's the best bet to prevent human beings becoming terrorists.
Over the last decades several studies have indicated that environment has a big influence on the development of kids. So the challenge for the people of a country is to create a safe and healthy environment. The task is offering long term perspectives, since usually ONE common goal of all parents regardless of religion etc etc is to provide their kids a good future. Seeing such a future creates motivation on parental side to "hustle", it helps kids realize a bigger portion of their potential.
Integration though is a two way street. And the biggest impact on the next generation are always the parents. So it's also important to conduct personality tests that help you determine how likely a person is willing to integrate. It starts with learning language, continues by encouraging their kids to make choices wherever possible and doesn't even end with refraining from conducting detrimental behavior in front of their kids.(Last week a 8-9 yr old kid, born in Germany with 2 parents with migration background told me "he was afraid that refugees would be placed in his class" and "The Syrians should fight for their country, not run away through my country(Turkey)" => That's a prime example of what I mean with parents influencing their kids)
But in the end weapon manufacturer are the ones with a powerful lobby.
 
BTP said:
Just to clarify: I'm neither supporting what either the PKK terrorists nor what the Basque ETA are doing. I just "understand" where they are coming from and why these extremists think they have to do it like that. When an ethnic/religious group is being discriminated like that, that's a hard pill to swallow.
Click to expand...

ETA are nothing but filthy criminals that don't represent how the majority of the Basque people feel. Also, they have pretty much been dissolved as an organization, they haven't done a thing (interesting enough) since the train bombings in Madrid. I have Basque friends and they all condemn ETA's murderous ways, they just think they would be better off by breaking away from the corrupt Spanish state.

The Basque country is one of the wealthiest regions in Spain where their income per capita is one of the highest, yet they have to 'donate' part of their wealth to more fiscally irresponsible regions in Spain. But by any means terrorist acts are 'understandable'.
 
Jamezz said:
ETA are nothing but filthy criminals that don't represent how the majority of the Basque people feel. Also, they have pretty much been dissolved as an organization, they haven't done a thing (interesting enough) since the train bombings in Madrid. I have Basque friends and they all condemn ETA's murderous ways, they just think they would be better off by breaking away from the corrupt Spanish state.

The Basque country is one of the wealthiest regions in Spain where their income per capita is one of the highest, yet they have to 'donate' part of their wealth to more fiscally irresponsible regions in Spain. But by any means terrorist acts are 'understandable'.
Click to expand...

i guess im wrong about that then, i always thought of basque as the spanish region that got very little support from the spanish government and thus yearning for separation.
I also think most Kurdish ppl dislike the terrorist acts of the PKK.
 
BTP said:
i guess im wrong about that then, i always thought of basque as the spanish region that got very little support from the spanish government and thus yearning for separation.
I also think most Kurdish ppl dislike the terrorist acts of the PKK.
Click to expand...

You're good, I just wanted to point out that terrorism should be separated from political ambitions.
 
So France has turned into a major player over this.

They are now sharing intel and bombing with Russia.

They are openly calling for EU members (they invoked an EU clause similar to Article 5 of the NATO charter) to join the fight and are now pushing for a joint Russian/American response.

Could this lead to a break in the damn and the world finally getting real and working together?
 
Stoked said:
So France has turned into a major player over this.

They are now sharing intel and bombing with Russia.

They are openly calling for EU members (they invoked an EU clause similar to Article 5 of the NATO charter) to join the fight and are now pushing for a joint Russian/American response.

Could this lead to a break in the damn and the world finally getting real and working together?
Click to expand...

I doubt it the solution breaks down to bombing a few ISIS recruiting camps in Syria, it's far more complicated than that. First of all, who is ISIS getting money from to go through with their operations? I highly doubt they're a self funded organization...
 
Jamezz said:
I doubt it the solution breaks down to bombing a few ISIS recruiting camps in Syria, it's far more complicated than that. First of all, who is ISIS getting money from to go through with their operations? I highly doubt they're a self funded organization...
Click to expand...

I agree that far more than some bombings are needed. Far more.

But getting all the key people to the same table to actually hammer out a solution is critical.

Russia and France teaming up is a major step in that direction. If France and Russia can get more people to that table (like Iran, Syria, Britain and Belgium) then it starts to have added weight and pressures others like Saudi Arabia and America.
 
Stoked said:
So France has turned into a major player over this.

They are now sharing intel and bombing with Russia.

They are openly calling for EU members (they invoked an EU clause similar to Article 5 of the NATO charter) to join the fight and are now pushing for a joint Russian/American response.

Could this lead to a break in the damn and the world finally getting real and working together?
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to bet a fortune there will be no German troops on foreign soil in an "aggressive" capacity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top