*shrugs* Whatever?
Penn State Pedophile Controversy
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
- Start date
*shrugs* Whatever?
It's cool. I was just confused at first when you said it.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Why he's the #1 target?
Why wouldn't he be?
#1 He's the face of the university if not the state.
#2 Being the powerful figure that he was, all he had to do was make ONE phone call to the cops, and this issue would have been resolved years ago (and many victims saved).
#3 While fulfilling his legal obligation, he appears (as much as we know now), to have done absolutely nothing else. He failed his moral obligation. Why not go to the cops? Why not go to your assist. coach and tell him to stay the hell away from the university (and little boys)? Why didn't he ever ask this guy what the hell he was doing with a kid in the shower? Why didn't he ever get on the university officials for not resolving this issue?
Did Joe forget how powerful he was? Or did he just hope to save his own cowardly ***, the university's cowardly ***, and just hoped to sweep this whole thing under the rug?
#4 Joe has acted completely illogical and downright arrogant and dilusional throughout this whole process. You can't call what happend to those victims as, "gee tough life. But all well! You guys study hard and I'll talk to you tomorrow! Who are we? Penn St!"
How could Penn St. really carry on with that circus in his front yard?
Joe has acted completely insensitive, offensive, and is one senile old man. Does he not realize that people are going to prison over this? Does he not realize that people are having their careers ruined because of this? On top of everything, does he not realize that for over a decade, his program and university has been protecting a monster who has preyed on little boys?
#5 Joe hasn't tried to prevent this circus from occurring. It's almost as if he likes this attention. He put himself in a corner by declaring that he would coach till the end of the year. This forced the university's hand, they needed to show some leadership and put an end to this freakshow. They couldn't go on playing football games, holding classes, and proceed with this investigation with Joe Pa still there. How his gutless assistant still has a job is beyond me. This whole school needed to be trashed. Start over. New Pres, new AD, new coach, new everything. I hope the NCAA permits players to transfer without punishment. Start over.
The only way to start over? Quickly cut off the head of the snake. They couldn't bring him onto campus to fire him, the media circus and kids would have just been sick. They couldn't "sneak" into his house with hundreds if not thousands of people noticing. They did the only thing they could do, fire him over the phone. Game over. You're done. Now we have a school and football program and reputation to restore.
Finally, Joe has only himself to blame. had he made the phone call... Whenever he knew of this issue (and even if he never really knew, this fell under his watch. Sorry Joe, but it happened while you were twiddling your thumbs... Or worse, writing a book about leadership), he HAD to call the cops. He didn't.
What did Joe Pa have to lose by calling the cops? He was the one man that could have busted this thing wide open real fast. If anything, his legacy would have increased as he "stood up" to a good friend and former coach, and saved so many kids from a horrible crime. He didn't. Coward.
He needed to confront his coach and find out WTF was going on. He didn't.
He needed to use his own power to move the gutless administration to action. He didn't.
Joe Pa had the obligation to bring gutter trash to justice and to prevent other children from being raped. He didn't.
Joe, because of your incompetence and/or cowardice, you will pay for it now. A failed football season, a crappy phone call telling you that you've been dismissed, and a tarnished legacy.
You Penn St. folks who are defending Joe, need to take a step back, breathe, and realize the weight of this situation. It isn't about football anymore. And your boy, Joey Pa, could have saved who knows how many young boys. Would you be defending Joe if one of your kids were a victim of Joe's neglect?
Why wouldn't he be?
#1 He's the face of the university if not the state.
#2 Being the powerful figure that he was, all he had to do was make ONE phone call to the cops, and this issue would have been resolved years ago (and many victims saved).
#3 While fulfilling his legal obligation, he appears (as much as we know now), to have done absolutely nothing else. He failed his moral obligation. Why not go to the cops? Why not go to your assist. coach and tell him to stay the hell away from the university (and little boys)? Why didn't he ever ask this guy what the hell he was doing with a kid in the shower? Why didn't he ever get on the university officials for not resolving this issue?
Did Joe forget how powerful he was? Or did he just hope to save his own cowardly ***, the university's cowardly ***, and just hoped to sweep this whole thing under the rug?
#4 Joe has acted completely illogical and downright arrogant and dilusional throughout this whole process. You can't call what happend to those victims as, "gee tough life. But all well! You guys study hard and I'll talk to you tomorrow! Who are we? Penn St!"
How could Penn St. really carry on with that circus in his front yard?
Joe has acted completely insensitive, offensive, and is one senile old man. Does he not realize that people are going to prison over this? Does he not realize that people are having their careers ruined because of this? On top of everything, does he not realize that for over a decade, his program and university has been protecting a monster who has preyed on little boys?
#5 Joe hasn't tried to prevent this circus from occurring. It's almost as if he likes this attention. He put himself in a corner by declaring that he would coach till the end of the year. This forced the university's hand, they needed to show some leadership and put an end to this freakshow. They couldn't go on playing football games, holding classes, and proceed with this investigation with Joe Pa still there. How his gutless assistant still has a job is beyond me. This whole school needed to be trashed. Start over. New Pres, new AD, new coach, new everything. I hope the NCAA permits players to transfer without punishment. Start over.
The only way to start over? Quickly cut off the head of the snake. They couldn't bring him onto campus to fire him, the media circus and kids would have just been sick. They couldn't "sneak" into his house with hundreds if not thousands of people noticing. They did the only thing they could do, fire him over the phone. Game over. You're done. Now we have a school and football program and reputation to restore.
Finally, Joe has only himself to blame. had he made the phone call... Whenever he knew of this issue (and even if he never really knew, this fell under his watch. Sorry Joe, but it happened while you were twiddling your thumbs... Or worse, writing a book about leadership), he HAD to call the cops. He didn't.
What did Joe Pa have to lose by calling the cops? He was the one man that could have busted this thing wide open real fast. If anything, his legacy would have increased as he "stood up" to a good friend and former coach, and saved so many kids from a horrible crime. He didn't. Coward.
He needed to confront his coach and find out WTF was going on. He didn't.
He needed to use his own power to move the gutless administration to action. He didn't.
Joe Pa had the obligation to bring gutter trash to justice and to prevent other children from being raped. He didn't.
Joe, because of your incompetence and/or cowardice, you will pay for it now. A failed football season, a crappy phone call telling you that you've been dismissed, and a tarnished legacy.
You Penn St. folks who are defending Joe, need to take a step back, breathe, and realize the weight of this situation. It isn't about football anymore. And your boy, Joey Pa, could have saved who knows how many young boys. Would you be defending Joe if one of your kids were a victim of Joe's neglect?
By the way, there was no confusion on what JoePa knew. He was told a 10 year old was being anally raped in the shower by his former defensive coordinator (who had been pushed out for being busted orally raping a kid in the shower four years earlier but was still given emeritus status).
Nowhere for this piece of crap to hide. Remorse for getting busted, but not for anything else. At least Sandusky has the excuse of being a sick monster.
Nowhere for this piece of crap to hide. Remorse for getting busted, but not for anything else. At least Sandusky has the excuse of being a sick monster.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
I thought Rome said yesterday it was at least 9.
kwb
Well-Known Member
The more I read about this football program, the more it makes me sick. I read online today that the fans were encouraged to wear baby blue to support the victims. Now I read that the football coaches told their players to tell their friends, family and fans to wear white to support Joe Paterno. I hope this football program sinks.
Now I just read an article on ESPN that former players have donated money to Sandusky for lawyer fees. Keep up the class guys!
Now I just read an article on ESPN that former players have donated money to Sandusky for lawyer fees. Keep up the class guys!
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vslice02
Well-Known Member
There is no fact whatsoever in that post, purely conjecture.
IF there is any truth in that - then there is no justification for Paterno's action, he should be ashamed of his inaction, and every subsequent abuse will forever on his head. At this point, there are no facts that would support that speculation to be true - or untrue.
kwb
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about the part where he was told by McQuery what happened? Whatever he was told, must have been serious enough for Paterno to go to his higher ups.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Oh come on. Whatever Paterno heard, it was enough to go to the administration, right? And I forget the actual phrasing, but Paterno admitted he was told something of an inappropriate sexual nature occurred between his former coach and a child.
His only defense is he didn't know the gory details. But put yourself in that situation. You hear someone who is a good friend pulled a Sandusky. Are you going to get the basic outline of that and move on to gameplanning for Iowa, or are you going to tune in and get every detail?
Joe knew. He didn't want to believe.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
From today's ESPN story:
A source told ESPN that Paterno recalls McQueary "vaguely" referencing "fondling" or "touching" or "horsing around" by Sandusky and a youth. But Paterno never had the understanding that McQueary had witnessed a "sodomy" or "rape."
Again, touching, fondling, and young boy don't go together unless McQueary left out the young boy part. You can't hear those words together and accidentally miss the story because you've got other things to do. So the idea the sodomy or rape ending wasn't heard or related doesn't wash.
A source told ESPN that Paterno recalls McQueary "vaguely" referencing "fondling" or "touching" or "horsing around" by Sandusky and a youth. But Paterno never had the understanding that McQueary had witnessed a "sodomy" or "rape."
Again, touching, fondling, and young boy don't go together unless McQueary left out the young boy part. You can't hear those words together and accidentally miss the story because you've got other things to do. So the idea the sodomy or rape ending wasn't heard or related doesn't wash.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
The minimum was for Paterno to pass along the details to his superiors. But in this case, I don't believe passing the buck was the right and only thing to do. Paterno was Sandusky's boss. I think Joe should have been hounding the administration to verify whether Sandusky was in the clear or not. I know I would in that situation. It's "CYA" whenever something serious comes to your attention as a boss. And in this case, with the allegation being that inappropriate contact with a minor was witnessed, any boss should be terrified of a lawsuit against him if the police and legal authorities do not become involved. Joe might be the fall guy here, but he has no one but himself to blame for getting sacked. And everyone else who became aware of the allegations and did nothing should also be fired from their positions.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
This whole Penn State type of scandal has actually happened before.
https://www.thepostgame.com/features/201111/another-era-and-another-sport-sex-abuse-scandal-still-inflicting-pain-today
https://www.thepostgame.com/features/201111/another-era-and-another-sport-sex-abuse-scandal-still-inflicting-pain-today
I take it you didn't read the report then. McQuery said in no uncertain terms that Sandusky was raping a child in the shower. A head coach of a powerhouse program can't really have the mental incapacity to not remember that and I believe he knew but was more interested in deluding himself and protecting the program. There is danger in loyalty.
Imagine a shaken McQuery contacting Paterno and meeting at his house for several hours, only to say that Sandusky may or may not have horsed around with someone in the showers that may or may not have been a child.
Give. Me. A. ****ing. Break.
A little lost in all of this is what an absolutely spineless and pathetic worm McQuery is. And that there should be (or justifiably is) outrage that he's being ALLOWED to stay on the team, whether he takes up the offer or not.
Give. Me. A. ****ing. Break.
A little lost in all of this is what an absolutely spineless and pathetic worm McQuery is. And that there should be (or justifiably is) outrage that he's being ALLOWED to stay on the team, whether he takes up the offer or not.
geez, I have so many thoughts on this...
one thing though, for those who are saying McQuery (in 2002, when he witnessed the shower incident) should've rushed in and and done something to stop it, especially those of you saying if it were you, you would've "gone ballistic" on Sandusky - - hopefully none of us will ever be in a situation where we witness something like that - - but keep in mind that the child is already being traumatized and victimized by the adult abuser, and doesn't need some other adult coming in and traumatizing him further. Much better to try and keep a cool head, than react in a way that might aggravate the situation for the child.
That's not to say that one shouldn't intervene in a situation like that, but just do your best to stay calm and intervene in a way that does not add to the stress of the situation for the child.
----------
In reading the transcripts, there are 8 victims listed, plus a couple additional children are mentioned who are not listed as victims, but were friends who were present when some of the incidents took place. Of the 8, 6 were actually interviewed by the Grand Jury and 2 were not. The victim in this particular case (#2) was not interviewed, he's listed as a victim based on witness testimony, as is victim #8. Of the 6 that were interviewed, I think there are 2 that describe behavior that is definitely sexual in nature. The contact that three or four of them describe is definitely inappropriate when taken in aggregate - a lot of tickling, hugging (while clothed), "back-cracking", showering together with some contact, stuff like that - but I'm not sure it would fit the legal definition of sexual abuse, particularly if it's looked at in isolation. That was the case for victim #6, the one that was reported to authorities and investigated in 1998.
One of the things we've talked about here at home is that from reading the transcript, some of the kids in the Second Mile program seemed to know a little bit about Sandusky's reputation. In addition to the victims that were specifically listed, other children in the program are mentioned as having been friends of the victims and aware of some of Sandusky's behavior. Kids talk, and adults generally overhear what they're talking about, and it seemed strange to me and my family that more red-flags weren't raised earlier on, among the adults who were working in the program.
But something that I think may have helped isolate Sandusky from some of the suspicions that folks may have had about his behavior early on is the fact that he was so involved with children for so long. According to wikipedia, he has 6 adopted children, plus he and his wife took in foster kids as well. So he would've always had kids around him. Nobody would've thought it that weird that these boys from the Second Mile program were spending time at his house or coming along on trips.
At any rate, there definitely was a massive cover-up of this at Penn State, and hopefully everyone will learn something from this.
---------------------------
on a related note, the now-fired Penn State University President, Graham Spanier, is from the Chicago area and was listed as a "Distinguished Alumni" at his high school. That high school has now removed his plaque from the "wall of honor" or whatever they call it, and removed his name from the list on their website.
one thing though, for those who are saying McQuery (in 2002, when he witnessed the shower incident) should've rushed in and and done something to stop it, especially those of you saying if it were you, you would've "gone ballistic" on Sandusky - - hopefully none of us will ever be in a situation where we witness something like that - - but keep in mind that the child is already being traumatized and victimized by the adult abuser, and doesn't need some other adult coming in and traumatizing him further. Much better to try and keep a cool head, than react in a way that might aggravate the situation for the child.
That's not to say that one shouldn't intervene in a situation like that, but just do your best to stay calm and intervene in a way that does not add to the stress of the situation for the child.
----------
In reading the transcripts, there are 8 victims listed, plus a couple additional children are mentioned who are not listed as victims, but were friends who were present when some of the incidents took place. Of the 8, 6 were actually interviewed by the Grand Jury and 2 were not. The victim in this particular case (#2) was not interviewed, he's listed as a victim based on witness testimony, as is victim #8. Of the 6 that were interviewed, I think there are 2 that describe behavior that is definitely sexual in nature. The contact that three or four of them describe is definitely inappropriate when taken in aggregate - a lot of tickling, hugging (while clothed), "back-cracking", showering together with some contact, stuff like that - but I'm not sure it would fit the legal definition of sexual abuse, particularly if it's looked at in isolation. That was the case for victim #6, the one that was reported to authorities and investigated in 1998.
One of the things we've talked about here at home is that from reading the transcript, some of the kids in the Second Mile program seemed to know a little bit about Sandusky's reputation. In addition to the victims that were specifically listed, other children in the program are mentioned as having been friends of the victims and aware of some of Sandusky's behavior. Kids talk, and adults generally overhear what they're talking about, and it seemed strange to me and my family that more red-flags weren't raised earlier on, among the adults who were working in the program.
But something that I think may have helped isolate Sandusky from some of the suspicions that folks may have had about his behavior early on is the fact that he was so involved with children for so long. According to wikipedia, he has 6 adopted children, plus he and his wife took in foster kids as well. So he would've always had kids around him. Nobody would've thought it that weird that these boys from the Second Mile program were spending time at his house or coming along on trips.
At any rate, there definitely was a massive cover-up of this at Penn State, and hopefully everyone will learn something from this.
---------------------------
on a related note, the now-fired Penn State University President, Graham Spanier, is from the Chicago area and was listed as a "Distinguished Alumni" at his high school. That high school has now removed his plaque from the "wall of honor" or whatever they call it, and removed his name from the list on their website.
IMO, the situation needed to be stopped immediately, by any means necessary. I personally like to think that I would have tried to just tell the son of a bitch to leave the shower and if that didn't work, escalate from there.
And I agree with you moe, i sincerely hope that none of us are ever in this type of situation.
candrew
Well-Known Member
I can't get inside this kids head and I'm certain I would have acted differently; but for the purposes of context, the more I read about this story the more I think about the basketball scandal at Baylor University about 10 years ago.
Two players on the team with bad blood between them got in a fight and one shot the other (Christopher Dennehy I think was his name). This uncovered a whole bunch of **** going on with the team all under the nose of Dave Bliss - who was supposed to be one of the good guys. Bliss tried to cover his *** and protect his own by making up stories about Dennehy being a drug dealer and an instigator in the incident when that clearly wasn't the case. One his assistants, who was threatened with being fired if he didn't go along with Bliss, wore a wire and turned Bliss in which cost Bliss his job and his reputation. The assistant coach did all the right things and for his efforts he's been black-balled in the college basketball community and hasn't worked in years.
Big time college sports programs are like the mafia - instead of the FBI after them it's the NCAA. It's a closed community and ratting out someone is an automatic death sentence. This idiot couldn't see the forest through the trees because he lives in that world. He probably had dreams of moving up the ladder and some day being an OC, DC or even a head coach. And if the higher ups weren't going to blow the whistle on this creep why should he? Sick, I know.