LogGrad98
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Racism and privilege
- Thread starter One Brow
- Start date
I was being half sarcastic and making a play on the situation to show reverse effect.
3% is a small difference that can most likely be explained by a skills gap. Most of the nationwide high unemployment of African Americans compared to Caucasian Americans is because of the skills gap and not racism, hence the need for targeted state or national policies to cure the root of the issue (jobs, not racism).
Now this thread is getting somewhere. Kudos Franklin*
Edit: Passing reforms on jobs and education would go farther to solve racism then any of the current laws that address the symptoms but not the disease.
A person's skin tone affects your impression of their overall demeanor.
Perceived skills, the the willingness to teach skills, is also affected by race. Why do you think the same resume gets more attention from a white person than from a black person?
As long as you don't have to change your behavior, it's all good, right?
Because of racialism.
As long as you can continue your crusade of false and incorrect accusations right?
OB, as one of the few who seem to understand and appreciate your intellectual rigor on the subject, I think you're missing out on the reward here. You may lament the current culture that doesn't think racialism is that big of a deal anymore, and want us to recognize a problem in correct context so that we can do more, but what you seem to be missing is the fact that this p.o.v. stems from a culture in transition from racist to non-racist. This world view is a product of progress; that in itself is change in behavior even if it is not specific change in the individual that you desire as a utopic end.
D
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D
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I generally don't participate in these discussions much, so forgive me if this has been beaten to death-- but I have a question for Mr. One Brow
Sir:
In most of the conversations that I see you carry on in this forum, I always experience a curious case of déjà-vu.
Understand that I have no animosity towards you, and odds are that some if my political opinions aren't too far from yours. So I hope you can take time to consider the following:
One Brow, whenever I see you post, my perception is that it is predominately associated with responding to a persons viewpoint whom you disagree with-- and then you elaborate why they are incorrect.
Of course, this sort of thing is normal-- but with you particularly, I would consider this "assault" as summating to an overwhelming majority of your posts.
While you can argue that this isn't the case, and that you often comment on things that are on your mind without the goal of conversing with another poster-- what you might want to consider is WHY this perception exists. As you realize, I am definitely not the first to bring it up-- and not the last.
Of course, when this has been brought up previously-- you have simply associated it with people who are very stubborn with their beliefs, and they are trying to disassemble the strength of your points with ad-hominem attacks.
Personally, I have never gotten in an extended argument with you, so I think you can appreciate the fact that my current post isn't being crafted with the intention of devaluing your opinions.
Rather, I'm simply curious why you spend so much time assaulting the views of others, and spend such little time offering curious, postulating insight as to what our next steps should be as a society-- regardless of what the issue may be.
I think I understand your motives, and truly respect that you put immense amount of thoughts into your beliefs-- but I think if you channeled some of this creative thought into discovering ways how to best-communicate these ideas, or how to take the next step forward with these ideas, I imagine that the animosity that you receive for your views would greatly diminish.
Sir:
In most of the conversations that I see you carry on in this forum, I always experience a curious case of déjà-vu.
Understand that I have no animosity towards you, and odds are that some if my political opinions aren't too far from yours. So I hope you can take time to consider the following:
One Brow, whenever I see you post, my perception is that it is predominately associated with responding to a persons viewpoint whom you disagree with-- and then you elaborate why they are incorrect.
Of course, this sort of thing is normal-- but with you particularly, I would consider this "assault" as summating to an overwhelming majority of your posts.
While you can argue that this isn't the case, and that you often comment on things that are on your mind without the goal of conversing with another poster-- what you might want to consider is WHY this perception exists. As you realize, I am definitely not the first to bring it up-- and not the last.
Of course, when this has been brought up previously-- you have simply associated it with people who are very stubborn with their beliefs, and they are trying to disassemble the strength of your points with ad-hominem attacks.
Personally, I have never gotten in an extended argument with you, so I think you can appreciate the fact that my current post isn't being crafted with the intention of devaluing your opinions.
Rather, I'm simply curious why you spend so much time assaulting the views of others, and spend such little time offering curious, postulating insight as to what our next steps should be as a society-- regardless of what the issue may be.
I think I understand your motives, and truly respect that you put immense amount of thoughts into your beliefs-- but I think if you channeled some of this creative thought into discovering ways how to best-communicate these ideas, or how to take the next step forward with these ideas, I imagine that the animosity that you receive for your views would greatly diminish.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
This is the problem OB. You make an assertion that stoked in particular has a problem with his behavior. You assert that all white people are the problem, even the ones that see how unfair our society treats minority populations.
I did not make this world what it is and I am not yet old enough to take credit for much in it. I sincerely hope that when I am I can say that I have made a meaningful difference and contribution.
I for instance agree with you about EVERY one of the many problems faced by people of a different skin color than my own, but like you said guilt is meaningless. I am going to give you one more chance. What is your "call to action". What can I do beyond felling guilty to help? I am the type that writes his congressman for instance. IS there a piece of legislation that you think I should support. Is there anything I can do or will I always be guilty because I'm white?
What's false about saying you don't want to change your own behaviors or accept any personal responsibility for change? You'be spent hundreds of posts in several threads saying just that.
No more so than I. We're all human, we all use brains made of meat, and we all succumb to these same deficiencies. There is no personal insult or slight intended.
Believe me, I take plenty of time to enjoy the fruits of progress so far. One of the reasons that I took that last break was that the position of gadfly is wearying, and I just needed time off from it. I do try to recognize that the transition is in progress, and I hope that, in some small way, I help to get people to keep it in progress. If I can get one employer to think twice about a first impression, one retail clerk to question if they are really reacting the same way, etc., than all this time on the boards is worth it.
hahaha. Glad you read what you want to read and not what is actually said.
I would agree that your perception here is correct; it comes close to my own perception. I suppose I rely too much on the notion of "silence means assent or apathy". When someone make an interesting point I agree with, and I'm not already in the middle of a discussion/debate/argument/what-have-you, I'm little inclined to post a "me too". I'll use the "Like this post" feature occasionally, though, and I think that was a fine addition to the board. I don't expect anyone else to chime in with "me too"s to my posts, either. My ideas should stand or fall on the merit of the evidence that can be brought for them, or perhaps on internal merit, but not because people like them or do not like them.
One of the implied messages in some posts is "Just shut up". I don't sense that in your post, but it can present itself as a comment on posting style or personality in other posts.
Just a couple of pages ago, LogGrad98 asked me the same thing, and I talked a little about how I would like to see him think twice about his decisions in hiring.
https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?19058-Racism-and-privilege&p=689508&viewfull=1#post689508
I don't know if that suggestion will have any play in his actual hiring decisions, but it's really all I can ask for. It's something I try to do every day. However, it will only happen if LogGrad98 actually believes he has this problem. People don't implement solutions, particularly not those that take extra effort, to problems that they feel don't exist. So, as a society, our next step should be to each take time to second think ourselves in all our interactions.
I do make the assertion that Stoked, in particular, is a human, thinks like a human, and acts like a human. The problem is that you seem to think this is some sort of insult to Stoked.
I don't recall ever singling out white people as the problem. I've said white people are the beneficiaries, and as such find it more difficult to see the problems and have less motivation to change the situation.
You will be guilty because you are human. You will benefit because you are white.
As for what you can do, I offer the same advice as I did to LogGrad98. Acknowledge that you, personally, as a human, have a problem. Don't trust your first impressions of people. When you evaluate someone, try to separate them from all the jokes, the media images, the various other cultural associations. Don't think that there is some piece of legislation or other exterior source that can be a solution. We are the problem; we have to be the solution, everyday.
If you have ever posted that you accept you have your own racist tendencies, and that you need to change your own behavior, I missed it. If you tell me that you so posted, I will happily take your word for it and apologize for indicating otherwise.