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Racism and privilege

One Brow said:
Just to be clear, you're looking for scientific literature that indicates people don't like to admit they have benefited from unfair advantages. So, we are talking about some sort of psychology experiments, probably. Do I have that right?
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Im looking for scientific justification for this statement that you made: "No one likes to think they had the easy road; they remember their struggles, but don't see how much more difficult their struggles could have been."




You can find a right-wing blog where the writer says they were blind and privileged, and have since had their eyes opened? Id be very interested in reading such an entry. If that's not what you meant, I'm not sure what you do mean.
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Nope, that wasn't my point-- simply pointing out that anecdotes aren't data.



I agree that anecdotes are not data.
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Glad we're on the same page

I'm not sure you can do experiments on what would be the most effective means of demonstrating a person's privilege to that person, though. What type of evidence are you looking for? How would you set up a study on that?
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This isn't what I was looking for. Please re-read my posts.



What was your goal, and how do you know you were successful?
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Well to summarize loosely: I encountered various individuals with huge misconceptions about a given topic-- misconceptions so incorrect, that the prevalence of these opinions could have drastic negative impacts on certain tenets of society.

Sometimes, me and the given individual "[coming now, and reasoning together]" led to the individual to changing his/her opinion; at times, having their "eyes-opened" had such profound impacts that some people have even joined active groups that aid and dispelling some of the misconceptions that they used to share.
 
One Brow said:
When spoken aloud, it's a near-homophone to a word that has a very racist context in many situations. So, while I have no objection to the word "niggard", I'd probably just go with "cheap" or "miserly" out of politeness.
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Appreciate the response

I encountered that word earlier.

I do not know the history of the word, but it's unfortunate that something as trivial as race can lead to the extinction of an otherwise unique, English word
 
One Brow said:
Oddly, a few years ago when I spoke more mildly on these topics, no one ever asked me what I thought they should do. It stayed at the nice, safe, academic level. At least now, people ask. So, I'm curious why you think those past conversations proved dalamon's point?
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And you have refused to answer. So really what has been accomplished? Nothing. If anything you have hardened stances against yours.
 
dalamon said:
Im looking for scientific justification for this statement that you made: "No one likes to think they had the easy road; they remember their struggles, but don't see how much more difficult their struggles could have been."
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You're looking for scientific literature that has an absolute attached? I acknowledge I will never find such a thing.

More generally, since I've acknowledged before that my life has been made much easier by dint of my being male, straight, cis, able, and slightly taller than average (I could list another half-dozen privileges), I'm not sure any reasonable person could take "No one" as being literal instead of exaggeration (although even then, I don't "like" admitting it, but rather feel it's necessary to preserve honesty on the subject).

Now, if you're looking for studies that show when participants have an advantage over other participants, they will tend not to notice that advantage and focus more on what they themselves did to win, I believe those can be found.

dalamon said:
Nope, that wasn't my point-- simply pointing out that anecdotes aren't data.
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I agree there. I don't see how data would be accumulated, though. At least anecdote shows what's possible.

dalamon said:
This isn't what I was looking for. Please re-read my posts.
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Is there any way to interpret that as not indicating that my reading effort is insincere or lacking?

dalamon said:
Well to summarize loosely: I encountered various individuals with huge misconceptions about a given topic-- misconceptions so incorrect, that the prevalence of these opinions could have drastic negative impacts on certain tenets of society.

Sometimes, me and the given individual "[coming now, and reasoning together]" led to the individual to changing his/her opinion; at times, having their "eyes-opened" had such profound impacts that some people have even joined active groups that aid and dispelling some of the misconceptions that they used to share.
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I think you chose the right tactic for your issue (based on what I've read in here, I'm guessing religion). I'm not trying to get people to dispel misconceptions; I'm trying to get them to acknowledge that, as humans, they share in the human inability to make quick, accurate decisions.
 
Stoked said:
And you have refused to answer. So really what has been accomplished? Nothing. If anything you have hardened stances against yours.
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Since I've answered two different people in this thread, and linked one of those answers and discussed it further with a third person, what does it say that you seem to have missed all that in a thread where you are responding to better than 25% of my posts?

I don't think your stance has hardened, because you can't get much harder than diamond.
 
LazyD said:
Appreciate the response

I encountered that word earlier.

I do not know the history of the word, but it's unfortunate that something as trivial as race can lead to the extinction of an otherwise unique, English word
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I agree, but of all the unfortunate things we've lost to something as trivial as race, the word "niggard" is way down on the list.
 
One Brow said:
Since I've answered two different people in this thread, and linked one of those answers and discussed it further with a third person, what does it say that you seem to have missed all that in a thread where you are responding to better than 25% of my posts?

I don't think your stance has hardened, because you can't get much harder than diamond.
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You specifically said you would not answer. You got asked repeatedly by Heyhey and Lograd. If I missed it then my apologies. If that is the case though why not just say "I already answered that"?

Right back at ya buddy.
 
One Brow said:
I'm not trying to get people to dispel misconceptions; I'm trying to get them to acknowledge that, as humans, they share in the human inability to make quick, accurate decisions.
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And I'm hypothetically trying to get people to acknowledge that, as humans, they share the responsibility for wrongfully putting several different cultural groups as societal-scapegoats.

To me, the difference between your initiative and mine are not far-apart. That is what I'm trying to elucidate here. The least I can do is try to "open your eyes", eh? :)

If you feel that my point isn't true, that's your prerogative, and you are entitled to it. I suppose not much more can be said to this conversation. Thanks for taking the time to read-- and thoroughly (and promptly) responding to my inquisitions.

Cheers.
 
Stoked said:
You specifically said you would not answer. You got asked repeatedly by Heyhey and Lograd. If I missed it then my apologies.
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https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?19058-Racism-and-privilege&p=689508&viewfull=1#post689508

Also, the last paragraph of:

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?19058-Racism-and-privilege&p=690527&viewfull=1#post690527

Stoked said:
If that is the case though why not just say "I already answered that"?

Right back at ya buddy.
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Why not just ask, "Did you ever answer LogGrad98 and hey hey?" instead of declaring that I did not answer them, twice within the last hour, the second driectly after I said I did answer them? Who are you trying to kid, here?
 
dalamon said:
If you feel that my point isn't true, that's your prerogative, and you are entitled to it. I suppose not much more can be said to this conversation. Thanks for taking the time to read-- and thoroughly (and promptly) responding to my inquisitions.

Cheers.
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I'd be more persuaded if you could offer more examples of people who were talked into the acknowledgment they had privilege via the sort of reasoned discourse you propose. What convinced you that a great deal of your personal success was due to the privileges offered you as a white male?
 
One Brow said:
When spoken aloud, it's a near-homophone to a word that has a very racist context in many situations. So, while I have no objection to the word "niggard", I'd probably just go with "cheap" or "miserly" out of politeness.
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Yeah I don't like "niggard".

I do like "queer" however. It is a word that I think (when not referring to homosexuals) defines a certain situation, feeling, etc concisely.
 
OK, so I think we're all human, but is anyone on here willing to admit that they're not human?

If so, and you're not human, what are you?



(Are you a god?....
BEST. MOVIE. LINE. EVER)
(except, perhaps, for: This chick is toast!)
 
moevillini said:
OK, so I think we're all human, but is anyone on here willing to admit that they're not human?

If so, and you're not human, what are you?



(Are you a god?....
BEST. MOVIE. LINE. EVER)
(except, perhaps, for: This chick is toast!)
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That movie was on TV a week ago. I watched the whole thing. Good stuff.
 
moevillini said:
OK, so I think we're all human, but is anyone on here willing to admit that they're not human?

If so, and you're not human, what are you?



(Are you a god?....
BEST. MOVIE. LINE. EVER)
(except, perhaps, for: This chick is toast!)
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Remember if someone asks you if you are a god you say YES!
 
One Brow said:
Since I live better than the leaders of Jerusalem back in the BC era, it would even be true.
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I have a smart phone so to them I would automatically be a god.
 
One Brow said:
Since I live better than the leaders of Jerusalem back in the BC era, it would even be true.
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This is just so fun I can't help myself. . . . .

I could readily understand why a person would reject religion if their measure of comprehension of "religion" consists of the physical possession accumulation and/or creature comforts and/or epicurean pleasures in the here and now.

Yep, if it's all about pleasure sensations like ego, food, comfort. . . . you're correct to reject a God who is defined by character, virtue, intelligence, mercy and compassion.


uhhh. . . .. I know it's not that simple for OB. . . . OK, give him credit for his laborious campaigns in here to establish a higher standard of reason and logic. . . .
 
One Brow said:
I just thought I was making an off-hand comment based on Psalm 82:6. You brought it to a whole new level.
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Looked to me like about five consecutive jokes there, leading to your own. I don't follow you closely for every remark you make, but unless you've made some recent adjustments I view you from my own pompous assininty as one who prefers your own "sense-certainties" (which you consider to be "science" and/or "professionalism") as better than other modes humans grasp in the attempt to comprehend the incomprehensible. . . for which the word "God" is a convenient euphemism. . . .

So yes, I'm making hyperbole. . .. and I'm aware that I'm really not on a significantly better footing for "popping off". When faced with obvious human inadequacy compounded with human audacity, it's best to use a little humor. . . .
 
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