Racism and privilege

[♪alt13]

What effect would either answer have on your interpretation of my posts?

In regards to every other thread on Jazzfanz, none at all.

In regards to this one, are you serious? You have accused everyone on here as being incapable of looking past their own racial biases and personal experiences. I think if you are going to make this claim it is only fair that we should examine your biases as well.

I would guess that you are white, because I have never had a black person try and guilt me simply for being white. White folks do it all the time though.

 

[One Brow]

Well since you have said that a white person cannot understand or speak for a non white on racism...if you are not white it means you cannot speak for or understand a white person on racism.

Well, I'm not trying to speak for any given group, just myself. I'm speaking about cognitive biases, their inevitability in every human, and how that plays out in a culture that is racist in some very fundamental ways.

As for understanding, I find it hard to believe you don't appreciate the difference. The media is dominated by the points of views of white people, the school books are written by and for points of views from white people, etc. If you live in the USA, the points of views of white people are an inescapable part of the cultural background. Since all these points of views benefit from privilege, and few are self-aware enough to so acknowledge, that means they are steeped in white privilege as well. By contrast, minority (and female) points of view are rarer, less well-broadcast, and less seen. You are creating a false equivalence.

 

[One Brow]

In regards to this one, are you serious? You have accused everyone on here as being incapable of looking past their own racial biases and personal experiences. I think if you are going to make this claim it is only fair that we should examine your biases as well.

What about being white or black would change my cognitive biases? Are you under the impression that black people don't share in the same racist biases that white people share in?

I would guess that you are white, because I have never had a black person try and guilt me simply for being white. White folks do it all the time though.

As I said earlier, your feeling guilty is irrelevant, unless it motivates change.

Would that be because the black people you know don't agree on these topics, because they don't know you well enough to discuss them, because they don't feel free to treat you as an equal, something else?

 

[♪alt13]

Well, I'm not trying to speak for any given group, just myself. I'm speaking about cognitive biases, their inevitability in every human, and how that plays out in a culture that is racist in some very fundamental ways.

As for understanding, I find it hard to believe you don't appreciate the difference. The media is dominated by the points of views of white people, the school books are written by and for points of views from white people, etc. If you live in the USA, the points of views of white people are an inescapable part of the cultural background. Since all these points of views benefit from privilege, and few are self-aware enough to so acknowledge, that means they are steeped in white privilege as well. By contrast, minority (and female) points of view are rarer, less well-broadcast, and less seen. You are creating a false equivalence.

No as far as I can tell you're trying to speak for me, and stoked, and Log, and Moe, and I'm pretty sure you put words into Gfs mouth as well.

Are you going to continue to dodge the question?

 

[bordelais7]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

I just scrolled through these fallacies. Pretty safe to say One Brow has achieved black belt in just about all of them.

 

[♪alt13]

What about being white or black would change my cognitive biases? Are you under the impression that black people don't share in the same racist biases that white people share in?



As I said earlier, your feeling guilty is irrelevant, unless it motivates change.

Would that be because the black people you know don't agree on these topics, because they don't know you well enough to discuss them, because they don't feel free to treat you as an equal, something else?

I don't feel quilty for being white. Like I said before, I Like social justice and try to be proactive.

I am also for Gay marriage. Is that motivated by my straight guilt?

 

[♪alt13]

dtitwwwistbiglypbittyhbaahimo

 

[♪alt13]

dtitwwwistbiglypbittyhbaahimo

Don't take it the wrong way when I say this, because I generally like your posts, but in this thread you have been an *** hole in my opinion.

 

[Stoked]

dtitwwwistbiglypbittyhbaahimo

Don't take it the wrong way when I say this, because I generally like your posts, but in this thread you have been an *** hole in my opinion.

Wait...

what? Forget to log out and back in?

 

[♪alt13]

Wait...

what? Forget to log out and back in?

What

You mean when I purposely posted a ridiculous acronym that was unintelligible for all but the most astute cryptanalysts(yes I googled that) and then quoted myself to clarify all for the sake of beating an acronym dead horse into the ground.

you got me

I must be an alt

 

[Stoked]

What

You mean when I purposely posted a ridiculous acronym that was unintelligible for all but the most astute cryptanalysts(yes I googled that) and then quoted myself to clarify all for the sake of beating an acronym dead horse into the ground.

you got me

I must be an alt

I'm not busting you on anything. I am simply asking. Is that what happened? AFter this post it appears not. I simply didn't understand the tone of the post. It happens.

 

[One Brow]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

I just scrolled through these fallacies. Pretty safe to say One Brow has achieved black belt in just about all of them.

I doubt you meant this seriously, but I'll respond just in case.

That's an interesting interpretation. When people are asking me if I'm racist, I'm acknowledging that I am, because it's unavoidable as a human raised in a racist culture. When people are saying they are not racist, I'm saying that they are humans raised in a racist culture, and it's unavoidable as humans raised in a racist culture. In what way is that tu quoque, which is a method of avoiding acknowledging a fault?

 

[One Brow]

I don't feel quilty for being white. Like I said before, I Like social justice and try to be proactive.

I am also for Gay marriage. Is that motivated by my straight guilt?

Good. I have no desire for you to feel guilt, and don't care whether your positions are motivated by guilt, anger, and an unemotional preference for simple fairness.

 

[♪alt13]

I'm not busting you on anything. I am simply asking. Is that what happened? AFter this post it appears not. I simply didn't understand the tone of the post. It happens.

Man I wasn't mad there either

better start adding *sarcasm* to these posts

I thought the long sentence with clearly too much passion was a dead give away.

My bad

 

[One Brow]

Don't take it the wrong way when I say this, because I generally like your posts, but in this thread you have been an *** hole in my opinion.

I'd have to have some idea of what that means in order to take offense.

Considering you have been going on about how I'm trying to make you feel guilty, when I haven't said anything about how you're at fault or any similar guilt-inducing rhetoric, I can't place much credence in your opinion of my behavior in this thread.

 

[Stoked]

I'd have to have some idea of what that means in order to take offense.

Considering you have been going on about how I'm trying to make you feel guilty, when I haven't said anything about how you're at fault or any similar guilt-inducing rhetoric, I can't place much credence in your opinion of my behavior in this thread.

hahaha. Nice dodge.

 

[♪alt13]

I'd have to have some idea of what that means in order to take offense.

Considering you have been going on about how I'm trying to make you feel guilty, when I haven't said anything about how you're at fault or any similar guilt-inducing rhetoric, I can't place much credence in your opinion of my behavior in this thread.

So does that mean you are or aren't white?

 

[One Brow]

No as far as I can tell you're trying to speak for me, and stoked, and Log, and Moe, and I'm pretty sure you put words into Gfs mouth as well.

Are you going to continue to dodge the question?

I have spoken about you, Stoked, etc. in the sense that you are human, and therefore process data as humans do. Could you point out where I was speaking for you?

I'll answer it if you can tell me why it matters.

 

[Stoked]

I have spoken about you, Stoked, etc. in the sense that you are human, and therefore process data as humans do. Could you point out where I was speaking for you?

I'll answer it if you can tell me why it matters.

You have also spoken at length about white privelage and how they cannot understand it from a non white perspective. I take it that you wont answer the question. I suspected as much but hoped for better.

Oh well...

 

[♪alt13]

I'm urging all people to recognize that they are products of their culture, that they share in the cognitive shortcuts and assumptions passed onto them by the culture, and that simply ignoring/denying the existence of these shortcuts means they perpetuate the shortcuts, even if they do not intend to do so. Intent is not relevant, behavior is. In particular, guilt is meaningless. inless it motivates change.

I defy you to pull out one sentece from the past 17 pages where I attacked, or even insulted, any other poster.

You are the one who equates the unequal playing field with "hopeless". There will always be indivuiduals who can clear the bar, even when it is set higher for them. Discrimintion against blacks in employment, STEM disciplines, etc. doesn't mean no blacks are employed nor that none work it STEM. It means that some of them are turned away, or accept lesser positions and opportunities. Denying this sort of victimization does not make it go away.



My recommendation is that when you bring King up, you need to keep in mind that you have a much smaller share in the experiences that informed King than many others have, and so your understanding of King is lacking in that regard. I have no problem with you saying what King inspires in you. However, you were trying to tell me what King meant as a corrective to my view. There are a few posters in here that seem knowledgeable enough that I would take such a corrective seriously. You're not one of them. You obviously lack the experiences and just as obviously have not attempted any serious study of the issue.



I have not ignored what you say, but I take it as seriously as I do the notion that the earth is flat and supported on the back of a turtle. Before I can work with you to make things better, you have to be able to see what's wrong. Why should I work with you on solutions when you don't even see the real problem?

how about that statement? My race seems to matter.

Wow clicked on a random page of this thread and found an example.

Any one else want to give it a try.