Reasons you left the LDS church.

[moevillini]

...Go ahead and say I can't prove it, or that it's make believe...... I don't have to prove it to you. I have already proven it to myself, and that's all that matters to me.

so it's almost more a matter of needing the proof you find rather than finding the proof you need?

or maybe it's defining the question in terms of the answers you already have?

I'm not sure, but that's just sort of how I feel about some of this stuff.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Thinking about religion makes my head hurt

 

[Chris-L]

Thinking about religion makes my head hurt

Think about boobs, you will feel better, I promise.

 

[Scat]

So instead you live, do what you have to do to secure your eternal reward and die? Both approaches seem amazingly selfish to me. There are other options.

Like partaking of mind altering drugs?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

It gives me something better to shoot for, than just live, take what you want, and die.

So instead you live, do what you have to do to secure your eternal reward and die? Both approaches seem amazingly selfish to me. There are other options.

It's about what's inside GVC. If I'm doing it only for a reward, then I'm doing it wrong. If I am doing it because I sincerely love God, love myself, love my family, love my neighbors, and love the other people on this earth... then I am on to something. Yes, sometimes I have gone through the motions with some things and have moved past the prior motivations of "fear of consequences", to "because I'm supposed to", to "for some reward in heaven", to "love".

For each of us, what's inside as we do something makes a huge difference. If I go to church because my parents made me I don't get much out of it. If I go to church because I'm LDS and that's what we do, I might get a little bit out of it if I'm lucky. If I go to church because I want to and I'm looking to learn something, or find something every week to make me better I might get enough that week to make me a little better of a person. If I do that every week, it will make a much bigger difference in my life over the years than expected.

By the way, if a reward comes naturally that would be nice, but it can't be the main motivation. I'm speaking for me only.

 

[Surely]

There are only three options when it comes to God. 1) You have seen Him and therefore know that He lives. 2) You believe in Him, and the words of those who have seen Him. 3) You don't believe in Him. For those who choose not to believe, why do you think that just because you have never seen God that nobody else has? I can't prove to anyone that Joseph Smith (for example) saw God, but at the same time they can't prove that he didn't. In the end it comes down to knowing for yourself (or having a spiritual understanding) and not worrying about trying to prove it to everyone else because you will never be able to take something of a spiritual nature out of you and use it to prove something to someone else. Just my thoughts.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

No more selfish than basing your entire understanding of reality on what 'feels good'.

I said "feels good" for two reasons.
Not only does it feel good, or feel right inside myself, my conscience... but I didn't want to get all into my beliefs of The Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit.
I didn't think my post was the place to expand on all that goes into things.

My meaning was the feelings inside myself of joy and peace and happiness as opposed to any sort of temporary rush that also feels good from roller coasters, gambling, your team winning, or any feeling you get from your hands or body.

Just clarifying a little bit.

 

[GVC]

Am I to take all this, Jazzspazz, as you being unable to see how wonderful life is without being told so by a religious authority? If so, that's sad.

Or is it just that you were born Mormon, and despite what you're told in church about non-Mormons, you don't have a clue what it's like to not be Mormon?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I don't think I have an angry approach to the church, I just have an issue with people who regurgitate Sunday school ******** like "It gives me something better to shoot for, than just live, take what you want, and die". Statements like this read as extremely ignorant, condescending and dismissive to me (if you'll permit me to be redundant). If Jazzspazz was just trying to say he's an especially selfish person, who'd be an unrepentant hedonistic ******* without Jesus, I apologize if I responded harshly.

You get what you want out of it because your mind is already made up. If you want "extremely ignorant, condescending and dismissive" that's what you see/hear.
I am a somewhat selfish person that is trying to be less selfish, and without Jesus I don't think I would have much in the way of happiness or peace in life.

When people start a sentence, for example, with "I don't think I have an angry approach to the church" that usually means you have an angry approach to the church. If, for example, you start out "I'm not trying to be rude" you are about to say something rude in general. I'm not saying you have an angry approach to the church or are rude, those are just examples, and I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression.

 

[GVC]

You get what you want out of it because your mind is already made up. If you want "extremely ignorant, condescending and dismissive" that's what you see/hear.
I am a somewhat selfish person that is trying to be less selfish, and without Jesus I don't think I would have much in the way of happiness or peace in life.

My mind is already made up? Your statement made it seem as though you think those who don't believe in God only care about getting theirs; that one needs God to not be a jackass. I'm guessing you were raised Mormon, in a Mormon community, and don't really know what it's like to not be religious. If that's the case, why do you continue to assert things ignorantly (like your "without Jesus" statement above)? Say you're happy, that you feel good when you pray, are at church, that's fine; you know about those things. But don't tell me what it's like to not be religious if you've never been there. I know how Mormons talk about non-Mormons, I've been there, and it bugs the hell out of me because it's often inaccurate, condescending and dismissive. Shameful.

When people start a sentence, for example, with "I don't think I have an angry approach to the church" that usually means you have an angry approach to the church. If, for example, you start out "I'm not trying to be rude" you are about to say something rude in general. I'm not saying you have an angry approach to the church or are rude, those are just examples, and I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression.

I started that sentence as a direct response to a rep Trout gave me, accusing me of being angry. If someone called you angry, and you didn't agree, you wouldn't just plainly state "I don't think I'm angry"? Context. It matters.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Am I to take all this, Jazzspazz, as you being unable to see how wonderful life is without being told so by a religious authority? If so, that's sad.

Or is it just that you were born Mormon, and despite what you're told in church about non-Mormons, you don't have a clue what it's like to not be Mormon?

You are to take it as, JazzSpazz is happy with the religion he chooses to live, and has found joy in living it the best he knows how.
You are the one that thinks a religion is someone telling you what to do, which is why you left.
I see it as people with experience in life, and religion, giving counsel.
You can choose to listen and try that counsel, or you can run away... and apparently be angry about it.
Even God does not tell me what to do, I am given choices. It's up to me what I do.


This thread was started for people to tell their story of why they left the LDS church.
Some people told their stories. Others told theirs of why they never joined. I shared mine of why I never left.

You are way out there dude, "despite what you're told in church about non-Mormons", you are reaching.
First of all nobody tells me about non-Mormons in church, second of all you know nothing about me and have some deep down anger issues relating to the LDS church. I grew up around almost all non-Mormons and have no issues with people not of the LDS faith. I know enough about what it's like to not be a member of the church to make an informed decision as to what is best for me.

Are you trying to tell me what's best for me? You hate it when "church leaders" tell you what to do, and you are trying to pressure me and tell me what is right for me? Seriously?

 

[GVC]

You are the one that thinks a religion is someone telling you what to do, which is why you left...You can choose to listen and try that counsel, or you can run away... and apparently be angry about it.

Excuse me? You know nothing about me, and continue to presume to know everything. I didn't run away from the church because I was angry about being told what to do.
I left the church, very sad and disappointed. It was hard as hell. I had no community to go to, no basis for understanding the world outside of the Mormon church/community. It would have been far easier to stick around.

You are way out there dude, "despite what you're told in church about non-Mormons", you are reaching.
First of all nobody tells me about non-Mormons in church, second of all you know nothing about me and have some deep down anger issues relating to the LDS church.

1. Mormons frequently talk about non-Mormons. I've been in many wards in many places, and feel pretty damn confident making this statement.
2. You're right, I know very little about you. I never claimed to know much about you.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

My mind is already made up? Your statement made it seem as though you think those who don't believe in God only care about getting theirs; that one needs God to not be a jackass. I'm guessing you were raised Mormon, in a Mormon community, and don't really know what it's like to not be religious. If that's the case, why do you continue to assert things ignorantly (like your "without Jesus" statement above)? Say you're happy, that you feel good when you pray, are at church, that's fine; you know about those things. But don't tell me what it's like to not be religious if you've never been there. I know how Mormons talk about non-Mormons, I've been there, and it bugs the hell out of me because it's often inaccurate, condescending and dismissive. Shameful.

I started that sentence as a direct response to a rep Trout gave me, accusing me of being angry. If someone called you angry, and you didn't agree, you wouldn't just plainly state "I don't think I'm angry"? Context. It matters.

I can see how the wording gave off the impression about needing God to not be selfish. That was not the intent. There are plenty of very selfish people that use God as a shield for their true intentions.

You are guessing incorrectly.

I'm not sure what you mean about telling you what it's like to not be religious, give me a quote?
Again, what do you know of me? How would you know where I've been or not been? Talk about dismissive.
You know how a few LDS members have talked about non-LDS members maybe, but that has more to do with people than the system. Yes LDS members will talk about non-LDS people that live near them for various reasons, yes one of the reasons is to judge interest in the church, but there are also plenty of conversations about making efforts at being friendly instead of ignoring them as some people do, and helping them even if they are not interested.

As to the context, you didn't give it. You mentioned Trout, but did not clearly state what he said or that you were directly responding to something he said. Yes, context helps. By the way you do come off as angry with the church and any people that are members of it whether you intend to or not. FYI

 

[GVC]

Again, what do you know of me? How would you know where I've been or not been? Talk about dismissive.

I never claimed to know, I only guessed. I was hoping you'd respond. I'll ask more directly:

Were you born Mormon? Have you always been Mormon? If so, how do you know what your life would be like without the church/Jesus?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Excuse me? You know nothing about me, and continue to presume to know everything. I didn't run away from the church because I was angry about being told what to do.
I left the church, very sad and disappointed. It was hard as hell. I had no community to go to, no basis for understanding the world outside of the Mormon church/community. It would have been far easier to stick around.

Yea, wanted to see how you liked it to be on the defensive about yourself.
That was pretty selfish eh?

My first post was all about me, and why I have stayed with the church.
Informational only, and I don't need you or anyone else attacking it.
Why are you not so critical of people that posted their story of why they left?
Don't answer that, I'm done posting on this. My intention was to add my story, not start this whole discussion again.

 

[GVC]

Why are you not so critical of people that posted their story of why they left?

Because they know what it's like to be both Mormon and non-Mormon.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I never claimed to know, I only guessed. I was hoping you'd respond. I'll ask more directly:

Were you born Mormon? Have you always been Mormon?

I know how many LDS members talk about non-Mormons in general (that is, not even specific people they know).

Ok, I'll answer this before I migrate to Basketball again.

I was born in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, yes.
I lived in a state and area where there were few LDS members. Most of my friends growing up were not members, and half were not white, not that it really matters. I have friends that I grew up with in many different situations. Gang member friends, drug dealer friends, LDS friends that did not live the LDS life, LDS friends that did live the LDS life, friends that went on missions and came back to “come out of the closet”, friends that did not go on missions when pressured to, friends that did drugs that were not members, friends that did drugs as members…. I’m just going to stop there. I may not have seen, or had close friends that have gone through everything imaginable but I’m not in the bubble you seem to think I am in. I'm not even going to go into what I've lived personally because I don't want to.

I know not every member of the LDS Church talks about non members in a snotty or condescending or "whatever" way.
Yes, some do, but that has to do with people, not the "church".

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Because they know what it's like to be both Mormon and non-Mormon.

Pretty lame. You don't know what they know any more than you know what I know.
Try again.

 

[GVC]

Pretty lame. You don't know what they know any more than you know what I know.
Try again.

Look, let's revisit how this conversation started. You said:

It gives me something better to shoot for, than just live, take what you want, and die.

I was just trying to say that Jesus isn't necessary to live a life about more than getting yours. I think it should be obvious why someone who isn't religious might have a problem with your statement. I find it sad that you can't find joy/wonder/reason to be decent without the church. I find it sad that you require the promise of a heavenly reward to feel good about your life.

I even qualified my statements, in case I misunderstood, implicitly inviting you to clear things up.

I don't think it's lame to be less critical of people who talk about things they know about (through personal experience, research, whatever) than of people who talk about things they don't know about.

 

[Beantown]

I didn't grow up in Utah and I think that helps a lot. Church in Utah is very different and creates the judgmental atmosphere.


Also it comes down to happiness. For whatever reason I wasnt happy when I was inactive. As much as it sounds lame there wasn't a spiritual feeling in my home, and I would feel it in other active members homes. I remember stopping by a family friends home who is a patriarch and the feeling you felt was amazing. I know it's sounds odd but I wanted my children to grow up in a home like that felt like that.