Reasons you left the LDS church.

[Beantown]

Blacks? Polygamy? JS? Nobody that is LDS leaves for these reasons in this day and age.

This thread smells like a setup by the OP.

Not at all, I have issues with Joseph marrying already married women, but my biggest issues are more with the Church not being open and discussing the controversial issues. If the church just admitted there have been mistakes it would help alot of people out.


I wouldn't leave the church because it provides way too much good for my family, but I just wish there was more transparency. Also the church walks a fine line of worshiping Joseph.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I'm starting to see a pattern here. All the BYU haters also are anti-LDS. Hmmmm. Wonder if those are related at all.

I don't think this is true at all. I know many participating LDS church members that are very anti BYU sports.
So BYU sports haters have a portion of them that also do not like the LDS Church, is that really a surprise?
There are also plenty of BYU sports supporters that do not like the LDS Church. Maybe not as many, but they are out there.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

I was never LDS, but I did grow up Catholic, and stopped believing somewhere around the middle of high school... although I'm not sure I ever really believed in most of it.

The problem with reliance on any kind of religious authority, whether it's the Bible or Book of Mormon or the Quran or whatever, is that it makes doctrinal disagreements between religions insoluble in principle. If both sides regard the authority of their text and/or religious leader as ultimately authoritative and self-authenticating, then both sides can do nothing but talk past each other. One group will insist that their sacred texts describe the ultimate truth, while the other side will insist with equal passion that the first group is mistaken, and propose different texts which they believe describe ultimate reality. Blind reliance on authority closes the door on conversation by providing no further reason for belief beyond the absurd non-reason of "it is true because we say so!" Yet claiming that a person or text is the infallible word of God does not make it so, and the fact that there is more than one group that makes this claim means that at most only one of them can be right (or more likely, none of them).

What is really needed is some criteria or method for judging religious truth when disputes arise. The only real candidate I see for this is reason itself. After all, even when a religious text is regarded as ultimately authoritative and infallible, it's human beings who have judged it to be such. Any decision to subscribe to a faith claim which cannot be argued rationally amounts to the surrender of reason to a supposedly higher authority, but again, given that there is more than one authority which purports to know the truth regarding human life, and that these authorities disagree on at least some matters, such a surrender becomes at best a crap-shoot regarding the faith claim's truth value; at worst, it is a willing self-deception revealing an existential cowardice. Hate to break it to you, but there just isn't any book out there that's going to tell you everything you need to know about life... you have to work at it. Life's not that easy.

Of course, reason has its limits (clearly). The truth is that there can never be a truly neutral vantage point, because we can never completely distance ourselves from our background beliefs and assumptions. Religions are like languages that way... even if you learn a new one, you're always going to speak your original language/religion the best, and in all others you'll likely have an accent. That's the cultural baggage we're all forced to carry. Such baggage isn't necessarily bad per se, as long as we remain conscious of the fact that it necessarily makes us biased. If everyone could just keep in mind that we're all biased, and that no one has all the answers, I think the world would be a much better place.

 

[Agoxlea]

I was raised LDS. I left because I do not see the relevance of religion in my life or choices. I'll be a good person and let the afterlife take care of itself.

Believing in religion to me is like believing in ghosts, aliens and magic.

That said I don't begrudge those who choose to believe in religion. Most of my family is still active members of the LDS religion.

Exactly this!! Except, I believe in aliens. Not sci-fi aliens, but definitely some type of life SOMEWHERE.

 

[YB85]

I've often wondered how many believers would be believers if their parents belonged to a different religion. This goes with any religion. If Joseph Smith/Muhammed/Whoever started their religion today instead of when they did, would you buy in or would you view them as a charlatan or as delusional?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

What the **** does this even mean?

This.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Numberica is anti-LDS? What a surprise.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Should a child of God not judge?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Not at all, I have issues with Joseph marrying already married women, but my biggest issues are more with the Church not being open and discussing the controversial issues. If the church just admitted there have been mistakes it would help alot of people out.


I wouldn't leave the church because it provides way too much good for my family, but I just wish there was more transparency. Also the church walks a fine line of worshiping Joseph.

I'm curious about the "good for your family" of which you speak. It sounds to me like you're using the church and God. And God don't play dat.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

This is a heartwarming thing to say, but members of the LDS church absolutely do not agree with YB85's post.

To agree with YB85's post, you would have to NOT believe in the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms, along with the degrees of glory within the Kingdoms themselves. For example, to obtain the highest degree of Celestial glory, you must be married and sealed in an LDS temple.

So yeah, you do believe that your particular religion gets better seats in The Luxury Box.

This is something that Joseph Smith, who you believe to have spoken directly to God, said in D&C 132 verses 15 through 20. If you're still not convinced, go ahead and read verse 21.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

This is the equivalent of using a microscope to look at one plant in an ecosystem, and then thinking you understand the whole ecosystem based on that one view. It's interesting to me how everything in the scriptures are focused on the goal of living with God, and everything in the LDS Church is based on returning to live with the God we were with before this life, and yet so many people get stuck focusing on one or two things that bother them that they forget to take a step back and see the whole picture. Every prophet, and every scripture points to Christ. Christ has accepted our burden, done what we could not do, and points us to God.

My understanding and belief on this topic, if I can word it well, is that even though certain physical ordinances are needed to get to the Celestial Kingdom ( live with God again), this has much more to do with what is inside each of us as a person. We can get baptized and married and all of that, but it has more to do with who we are inside. I think when all is said and done there will be plenty of surprises as to who is in the Celestial Kingdom, and who is not.

I post this just to clarify, not to convince. I know many of you have your reasons for doing what you do, and believing or not believing as you do. That is fine, I have no problem with that. I just hope that good communication and understanding, even if the two parties disagree, will lead to less hurt feelings and more civil comments.<--- that last part was in general, not directed at you Xsy

 

[Beantown]

I'm curious about the "good for your family" of which you speak. It sounds to me like you're using the church and God. And God don't play dat.

-It gives me lots of opportunities to serve
-gives me spirituality
-teaches me and my kids good values
-my kids love nursery/primary
-I do believe in God and Christ so it still gives me opportunity to worship
-overall it keeps our family closer

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

When I was in Middle School I went to a Presbyterian church cause most of my good friends did and they had sweet trips. After the trip of all trips ended (Snowboarding trip to Colorado) I considered that the peak of my relationship with Jesus and God, and I stopped going to church/caring about religion.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

-It gives me lots of opportunities to serve
-gives me spirituality
-teaches me and my kids good values
-my kids love nursery/primary
-I do believe in God and Christ so it still gives me opportunity to worship
-overall it keeps our family closer

Do you believe that one can live as deep and fulfilling a life as you believe you have, without God in his or her life?

 

[Beantown]

Do you believe that one can live as deep and fulfilling a life as you believe you have, without God in his or her life?

Of course.

 

[CONAN]

I don't think this is true at all. I know many participating LDS church members that are very anti BYU sports.
So BYU sports haters have a portion of them that also do not like the LDS Church, is that really a surprise?
There are also plenty of BYU sports supporters that do not like the LDS Church. Maybe not as many, but they are out there.

No question. A better way to put that might be that by and large the bigtime BYU haters here are also anti-LDS.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Rule #1 when talking to people about religion is to ask them what they believe, not tell them what they believe.

Unless, of course, it's missionaries telling people how much better their religion is than whatever it is that the potential non-believers believe.

 

[Agoxlea]

No question. A better way to put that might be that by and large the bigtime BYU haters here are also anti-LDS.

I don't think a majority of the non-lds or former lds people here are "anti-lds". They just might be anti people like you with a self rightous superiority complex. That's just a guess, but I have no problem with the lds church, but can't stand the vocal minority of lds people that act like that.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Unless, of course, it's missionaries telling people how much better their religion is than whatever it is that the potential non-believers believe.

Missionaries may try to help people understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, and encourage them to do things that may get them to "convert" to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but generally missionaries are not telling people what that person believes.
If I was a missionary and I met you on the street, I would try to tell you what I believe, I would not try to tell you what you believe. I don't even know you, so how do I know what you truly believe? I believe that was Colton's point.
Go ahead and ask me what I believe if you want to know.

Your missionary line made no sense in the context of what Colton was saying.

 

[Xsy]

Rule #1 when talking to people about religion is to ask them what they believe, not tell them what they believe.

When you say you believe in the LDS church, I'm assuming you believe in its teachings. If you don't believe in what the prophets say, I wouldn't consider you LDS. Especially in a church as unique as the LDS church, where you have a modern day prophet who literally speaks directly to god. If you believe in the LDS church, I assume you believe in the articles of faith. Particularly number 5. Also, I didn't tell you what you believe in, you told me you were LDS-- that means you told me what you believe in.

I was a very active member until I was 19-- I was even ready to go on a mission, before I finally renounced my religion. Honestly, it was the hardest part of coming out.

 

[Xsy]

This is the equivalent of using a microscope to look at one plant in an ecosystem, and then thinking you understand the whole ecosystem based on that one view. It's interesting to me how everything in the scriptures are focused on the goal of living with God, and everything in the LDS Church is based on returning to live with the God we were with before this life, and yet so many people get stuck focusing on one or two things that bother them that they forget to take a step back and see the whole picture. Every prophet, and every scripture points to Christ. Christ has accepted our burden, done what we could not do, and points us to God.

My understanding and belief on this topic, if I can word it well, is that even though certain physical ordinances are needed to get to the Celestial Kingdom ( live with God again), this has much more to do with what is inside each of us as a person. We can get baptized and married and all of that, but it has more to do with who we are inside. I think when all is said and done there will be plenty of surprises as to who is in the Celestial Kingdom, and who is not.

I post this just to clarify, not to convince. I know many of you have your reasons for doing what you do, and believing or not believing as you do. That is fine, I have no problem with that. I just hope that good communication and understanding, even if the two parties disagree, will lead to less hurt feelings and more civil comments.<--- that last part was in general, not directed at you Xsy

Why is it a bad thing to know the details? A lot of people who are raised LDS believe without thinking. To not take a look in the microscope is ignorant. Its like buying a car without opening the hood or taking it for a test drive. Its just dumb.

 

[colton]

Unless, of course, it's missionaries telling people how much better their religion is than whatever it is that the potential non-believers believe.

I think you misinterpreted my comment. Perhaps it was ambiguous. I'm saying Rule #1 is that person A should not try to tell person B what person B believes. Not that person A shouldn't tell person B what person A believes.