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Reasons you left the LDS church.

LogGrad98 said:
This always cracked me up to, which is why I never understood Sunstone. That is kind of like joining a basketball league and complaining that they don't allow traveling, or double-dribble. Then petitioning and getting people up in arms that they won't change the rules for you.
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FWIW: I think Sunstone is the most valuable non-church sourced resource the membership has. Those people fervently care about their religion in a mature way that recognizes the human-driven element of the organization. Think of them as the extremely loyal opposition.

Here's the thing: I'd say about 60% or more of all grousing comes down to the dumb rules. The R-rated movie thing is silly and an example of the church in some sense ceding power to an industry-rating body (the MPAA), who you'd have to be sort of crazy to believe makes their decisions in any divinely inspired manner. The caffeine thing is a classic example of people playign the "more mormon than you" game. The church's forays into politics have been somewhat unwise, and a continuation of a trend starting with Ezra Taft Benson's rise in the church leadership of unofficially aligning the church with a specific political agenda. That's a fight the church specifically tried to stay out of in the 1960s and have essentially conceded to today. The net result is exclusionary and serves to turn people off. I've long regarded myself as Mormon-sympathetic. I'm not anti-Mormon in any real way but the organization and I are at an impasse that I'm not willing to compromise on.

Outside of that, the benefits of the church are immediately obvious to those who attend. It's a collection of generally well-meaning people who are a great support structure and give a real sense of community. It's the closest thing to the idyllic neighborhood that people are always searching for where you know everyone's kids, someone always has a pickup truck when you need to move, and dinner guests are plentiful. That's a real positive even if you can take or leave the whole God thing. I don't know any non-hermits who wouldn't sign up for that if all the silly stuff got removed from the equation. And for the record, I'd help colton, Bronco, catratcho, GVC, Trout, and the others move anytime. That's an imagined LDS community I'd support. The Conan's and the bad bishops and weird decisions are what keep me at arm's length.
 
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Sirkickyass said:
FWIW: I think Sunstone is the most valuable non-church sourced resource the membership has. Those people fervently care about their religion in a mature way that recognizes the human-driven element of the organization. Think of them as the extremely loyal opposition.

Here's the thing: I'd say about 60% or more of all grousing comes down to the dumb rules. The R-rated movie thing is silly and an example of the church in some sense ceding power to an industry-rating body (the MPAA), who you'd have to be sort of crazy to believe makes their decisions in any divinely inspired manner. The caffeine thing is a classic example of people playign the "more mormon than you" game. The church's forays into politics have been somewhat unwise, and a continuation of a trend starting with Ezra Taft Benson's rise in the church leadership of unofficially aligning the church with a specific political agenda. That's a fight the church specifically tried to stay out of in the 1960s and have essentially conceded to today. The net result is exclusionary and serves to turn people off. I've long regarded myself as Mormon-sympathetic. I'm not anti-Mormon in any real way but the organization and I are at an impasse that I'm not willing to compromise on.

Outside of that, the benefits of the church are immediately obvious to those who attend. It's a collection of generally well-meaning people who are a great support structure and give a real sense of community. It's the closest thing to the idyllic neighborhood that people are always searching for where you know everyone's kids, someone always has a pickup truck when you need to move, and dinner guests are plentiful. That's a real positive even if you can take or leave the whole God thing. I don't know any non-hermits who wouldn't sign up for that if all the silly stuff got removed from the equation. And for the record, I'd help colton, Bronco, catratcho, GVC, Trout, and the others move anytime. That's an imagined LDS community I'd support. The Conan's and the bad bishops and weird decisions are what keep me at arm's length.
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I agree with most all of this.

However, I followed Sunstone very actively for a decent period of time (decade or so) and it fluctuated so greatly between "good resource" and discussions to all-out calling for changes to doctrine (obviously it was individuals within the movement, not necessarily Sunstone itself, although they did publish a lot of it) that I stopped following them. That is where they got into the portion I pulled for my analogy.

For the record, there is no R-rated movie commandment, per se. Orson Scott Card has a good piece about this.

https://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-r-rated-movie.html

I also agree that at times the church gets too political. I believe that is a failing of the individuals and not the doctrine, in most cases.

But I also left the church, when I drifted away, due to people. My brother-in-law and an official in my ward chastised me that my cancer did not turn me into a true saint, when I expressed it had made me somewhat bitter. That among other things (by no stretch was their response the biggest issue I had) caused me to re-evaluate my beliefs for a long time. I have come to realize that the people are just a part of it, and in their own way, most are trying to do the best they can in their circumstances. The trick is to learn what those circumstances are and try to help make them a little better where I can. Right now I am the physical facillities rep for my ward, so I try to get people involved in helping clean the church who might not otherwise have anything to do with it, or who might feel uncomfortable doing other things in the ward. This is a way I can help improve their circumstances somewhat and they can feel the same commeraderie and unity without being on edge about a calling or whatever.

[That is a large piece of my management philosophy too - that people, not always but for the most part, genuinely are trying to do the best they can in their circumstances, no one wants to feel like a failure, and if I can understand their circumstances I can help improve them as far as work is concerned and subsequently make it a better place to work, performance increases, we reach our goals, everyone is happier at work, we have some fun, we get better performance, etc. etc.]
 
Dang I read just part of this thread and people are having a hard time!

I am a biology major, so I guess you can say I am a man of science.
After watching this video I converted to Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJiPTCtAPAY&feature=fvst

Islam only religion with no scientific error, only religion to suggest marrying one wife (gives limit of four, but is ONLY one that says you should marry one if you can't treat fair AND wife approves), only religion to give women inheritance rights, Really the only religion that gives god all the glory, no pictures/statues worshipping jesus, buddha, Joseph Smith etc.

If someone can find one scientific error in Koran I will become an Atheist (Bible has over 10,000 like Dragonfly's have 4 leggs, stars are small objects that can fall, and the sky cannot be penetrated).

People attribute the miracles of the Koran to that science was advanced back then. Not true, Arabs become advanced AFTER the Koran, not before. The Koran said that Muslims will conquer Constantinople. 1/5th of the Koran is about science and none of it is contradicted.

Religion is not a buffet. You cannot take parts of it and leave the rest.
 
CONAN said:
Definitley a slam. Case closed hater.
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CONAN said:
GVC said:
I know how Mormons talk about non-Mormons, I've been there, and it bugs the @#!*% out of me because it's often inaccurate, condescending and dismissive. Shameful.
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Pretty broad slam here.
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Believe it or not, there is a difference between "slamming' some of the behavior of members of the church and actually slamming the church itself.
 
The Black Swordsman said:
...Religion is not a buffet. You cannot take parts of it and leave the rest.
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Unless I completely misunderstood what you meant to say, I disagree with this statement. Religious belief and faith is a personal thing. It is not unusual for people who follow a particular religion to disregard specific aspects of that religion. I know Jews and Muslims who eat pork, and Muslims who drink alcoholic beverages. Perhaps to you they are not true followers of the faith, but your opinion isn't the one that really matters in the end.
 
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