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Report: Gordon Hayward, Utah Jazz discussing contract extension

Two pages to cover stuff that was discussed on page one? Cool.

I don't know how the Jazz can determine contract value for either Hayward or Favors.
 
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franklin said:
I don't know how the Jazz can determine contract value for either Hayward or Favors.
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********. There's loads of information on past players, their performance, and their contracts. The FO should have some idea about which teams will (/are likely to have) cap space, which players will be free agents, and team-specific needs.

The FO should be able to construct some reasonable distribution over individual (for Favors and Hayward) and team performance over the life of their contract extensions.

Given this, estimates of team revenue, and the FO's short- and long-term strategies and attitudes toward risk and ambiguity (uncertainty), there should be a large set of contracts the team is willing to offer to both Favors and Hayward. For example, they'd certainly extend them for the minimum for 4 or 5 years. Whether there's any overlap between what the FO is willing to offer and the players are willing to accept is unknown.

Yes, contract offers made today can affect the relationship between the FO and the player/agent, but even agents depend on having working relationships with all teams to get the best contracts for their players. They can't afford to get their feelings hurt.
 
GVC said:
********. There's loads of information on past players, their performance, and their contracts. The FO should have some idea about which teams will (/are likely to have) cap space, which players will be free agents, and team-specific needs.

The FO should be able to construct some reasonable distribution over individual (for Favors and Hayward) and team performance over the life of their contract extensions.

Given this, estimates of team revenue, and the FO's short- and long-term strategies and attitudes toward risk and ambiguity (uncertainty), there should be a large set of contracts the team is willing to offer to both Favors and Hayward. For example, they'd certainly extend them for the minimum for 4 or 5 years. Whether there's any overlap between what the FO is willing to offer and the players are willing to accept is unknown.

Yes, contract offers made today can affect the relationship between the FO and the player/agent, but even agents depend on having working relationships with all teams to get the best contracts for their players. They can't afford to get their feelings hurt.
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Hey, tone it down. $500,000,000.00 organizations is too poor and dumb to comprehend this.
 
Durrrr said:
The Harden situation is a prime example of not knowing a players value because of his limited role.


I guaranasstee you they would have dealt Ibaka or gotten WAY more in return for Harden if they would have known he'd perform like he did last year in a larger role instead of sixth man.

Can you stop with this "intellectually bankrupt" blanket statements now ?

We don't know how they will perform and what their true value is.

I'm not saying either one is as good as Harden or close, my point is we don't know the value until they have a significant role and see what they do with it. We see potential. So we either take the risk and sign them for what we think it is or let them play and either its lower or they blow up.

I've heard people talk about how players prepare differently and perform different when they know their contribution will be significant and valuable.
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We know what their value is today and their extension offers from the Jazz will reflect that; for the Jazz to do otherwise is to risk repeating the AK mistake.

And don't underestimate the pressure on a player to ink his next contract ASAP. No player enjoys going into the final year of his contract unless he knows a big raise is coming. Favors was branded a "bust" by New Jersey and he hasn't shown anything since joining the Jazz to reverse that opinion from a Jersey fan. He has to be itching for some type confirmation that he deserved to worthy of top-3 pick and I think a $10-mill/year contract extension would do that. Hayward has shown he is a quality swing-man, but nothing that proves he is worth an 8-figure salary. Neither one of these players has shown that he will be a future all-star, so the risk of a Griff-type injury in their final year has to be weighed against the far-from-sure expections of a bigger contract if they excel this coming season.

Edit: For those of you too young to know, the "Golden Griff" went into the offseason without inking his new Jazz contract because he wanted a bigger contract than the Jazz were offering. He broke his foot in a summer pickup game and his hospital bills and 1-year of rehab was paid out of his own pocket. He never got the contract he wanted.
 
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I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I think that Favors will probably be worth about 12 next year and Hayward about 9, but if we lock them up now we might get a few mill off that.

Again, I am pretty sure this hasn't been discussed here so I thought I would bring it up. I knew Frank would appreciate such an important contribution to this discussion.

12 and 9. Book it.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I think that Favors will probably be worth about 12 next year and Hayward about 9, but if we lock them up now we might get a few mill off that.

Again, I am pretty sure this hasn't been discussed here so I thought I would bring it up. I knew Frank would appreciate such an important contribution to this discussion.

12 and 9. Book it.
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The intent of your posts has been hard to read ever since your return.
 
A bust in NJ

"Favors was branded a "bust" by New Jersey"

Not sure I agree. NJ was in "win now" mode (ergo willing to let raw talent go in exchange for DWill). Hard to know how he would have developed if placed in a key offensive role. This year should help to answer the question. I think this was exacerbated by his "deer in the headlights" look and "painfully shy" personality. No one wanted to rush him because he was so darn uncomfortable in his own skin and did not know if he belonged in the NBA. Biggest risk to the Jazz: does he develop a killer instinct? Will he get a chip on his shoulder and try to go destroy the opponent? What is his will to win? For me, fingers are crossed that he grows up this year..... But given Jazz history with AK and his (very different) neuroses, are the Jazz willing to risk $12MM at this time? My guess is no, they will be gun shy and would only extend now at under $10MM (i know I'm in the minority here with the consensus around $12M, but let's just see how it plays out. If he proves his swagger next season, then he lands $12MM after this year as the Jazz match.


https://dimemag.com/2010/11/nba-journeyman-may-turn-derrick-favors-into-hasheem-thabeet/
 
silesian said:
"Favors was branded a "bust" by New Jersey"

Not sure I agree. NJ was in "win now" mode (ergo willing to let raw talent go in exchange for DWill). Hard to know how he would have developed if placed in a key offensive role. This year should help to answer the question. I think this was exacerbated by his "deer in the headlights" look and "painfully shy" personality. No one wanted to rush him because he was so darn uncomfortable in his own skin and did not know if he belonged in the NBA. Biggest risk to the Jazz: does he develop a killer instinct? Will he get a chip on his shoulder and try to go destroy the opponent? What is his will to win? For me, fingers are crossed that he grows up this year..... But given Jazz history with AK and his (very different) neuroses, are the Jazz willing to risk $12MM at this time? My guess is no, they will be gun shy and would only extend now at under $10MM (i know I'm in the minority here with the consensus around $12M, but let's just see how it plays out. If he proves his swagger next season, then he lands $12MM after this year as the Jazz match.


https://dimemag.com/2010/11/nba-journeyman-may-turn-derrick-favors-into-hasheem-thabeet/
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Yeah, "bust" may have been a bit of reach, but if there was anyone crying in Jersey over his departure to Utah, it was likely limited to his immediate family and his landlord.
 
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So next year if we add ending contracts and non-guaranteed contracts Jazz will have about 34 million cap space. Correct me if im wrong please. Thats a pretty big radius of action... If we're guessing Hayward will get around 9 per year and favors wil get around 12 if we extend their contracts, that means cap space minus 9 million for each year. Still got about 25 million cap space. When we get a lottery pick at next years draft that means about minus 4 million. If we get a franchise player like Wiggins, Parker etc. im guessing they (FO) will be pretty eager to see what this team could do with some good FA additions.

Anyway with about 21 million of cap space next year they can start the talks of extending Kanter&Burks' contracts and this year will be determinant for the amount of extended contacts. Its not safe to say we will %100 extend all C4 when the time has come. Not worrying about Kanter and his next contract is pretty predictable but not so sure about Burks. He should show that he is worthy for an extention this year. And we may sacrifice someone in the future, like Thunders did with Harden if they perform better than we all expected.
 
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I think whether Favors is worth max or not is still up in the air. Ergo, right at this moment, I do not believe he is worth max money, although he may be someday. If we can lock him up at less than max for a few years right now I think we should do it.
 
I personally hope they both get signed before training camp starts. Just to show fans that they want to be here and so they have one less distraction so they can really start to develop as leaders of our team.
They're both worth the money we're talking about. I think that's a given. So why not just get it done...
 
@davidjsmith1232: "Hayward is sort of a notch below the Batum/Gallinari class of small forwards from a couple of years ago." -@kpelton
 
Sexual Favors said:
@davidjsmith1232: "Hayward is sort of a notch below the Batum/Gallinari class of small forwards from a couple of years ago." -@kpelton
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I disagree. But, my only evidence would be some vague notion about Hay's "feel for the game." I think he'll be more consistent + make better 5-man-basketball plays + be more versatile than either of those guys.

That said, I don't think what I'm saying can be quantified or proven in terms the negotiators will recognize. So, I might expect him to be paid a little less. Anyway, I think POR and DEN would rather have Hay. I would.
 
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];656987 said:
I disagree. But, my only evidence would be some vague notion about Hay's "feel for the game." I think he'll be more consistent + make better 5-man-basketball plays + be more versatile than either of those guys.

That said, I don't think what I'm saying can be quantified or proven in terms the negotiators will recognize. So, I might expect him to be paid a little less. Anyway, I think POR and DEN would rather have Hay. I would.
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Agreed.
 
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