Romney's The Man
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NAOS
Well-Known Member
I'll rep this post.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't get on my high horse and talk **** around here.
I think the best way to avoid the oft-cited problems with political, economic, aesthetic, etc. debates is to try to engage with ideas in a way that is agnostic about any ideological preconceptions. Get into the stream of how those ideas and sensations are constructed; try to understand your interlocutors' experience of them rather than quickly closing them off with a meaning. Difficult? Yes.
He's more or less governed as one. I'll chalk that up to money getting to him.
Neoliberalism is the disease that grew out of conservatives trying to work with progressives to use government in a way that minimizes perverse incentives while yielding to progressives the power they had been fighting for. The welfare state has grown as has crony capitalism. What a handshake huh?
My issue with those who attack this is their willingness to reign in the monied side while trying to grow the welfare state. No. It has to be both ends or neither or it won't work. Let's go back to regulated wealth accumulation and hard knock life with basic welfare for those who need it. No more perpetuating generational poverty and enriching the guys at the top by doing so.
True, and you seem to be demonstrating a lack of understanding your own wisdom at the same time when you're busy demonizing the political right. Boiled down, the right says we cannot predict and control the outcomes of our tampering so we try to minimize that tampering. That theory just happens to coincide nicely with the notion of liberty.
Granted, the right are learning the hard way (again) the outcomes of not controlling things at all. The problem they have (as BluesRocker partially pointed out), is lack of trust combined with what they perceive as an attack on their way of life. Creeping socialism is easy to see, and the talking heads on the left have become quite radicalized toward communistic tendencies just as the talking right has become radicalized toward Laissez-faire tendencies.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
this is why we are friends.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
My research in the post-colonial "jungle" has made allergic to anything resembling Keynesian economics. Without belaboring the point, Keynes' theories are predicated on colonial model of wealth re-patriation. I'm also a bit uncomfortable with the power it gives a centralized State, but I try not to take this line of thought too far, since it puts me in the middle of a bunch of tea-baggers.
Why fight it, accept your destiny.
BluesRocker
Banned
One of the biggest problems we face is that our government doesnt enforce monopoly laws.
All the money is slowly being funneled into a few hands and leaving behind nothing but low paying jobs.
How is it that Home Depot and Lowes get to set up shop every ten miles? Meanwhile wiping out any chances for anyone else to start a competitive related business. Its impossible. Plus they make this gigantic store that sells everything practically leaving nothing else for anyone else in the city to sell and make a profit. And what does that leave behind? A bunch of 10 dollar an hour jobs and then the rest of the wealth is shipped off to a few families somewhere else.
I like the convenience of big box stores too, but is this good for us? Do we even really have something on monopoly laws. How are the local people supposed to compete with this crap? Sure we get a little better deal on products but in the mean time its killing the foundation of a strong economy.
All the money is slowly being funneled into a few hands and leaving behind nothing but low paying jobs.
How is it that Home Depot and Lowes get to set up shop every ten miles? Meanwhile wiping out any chances for anyone else to start a competitive related business. Its impossible. Plus they make this gigantic store that sells everything practically leaving nothing else for anyone else in the city to sell and make a profit. And what does that leave behind? A bunch of 10 dollar an hour jobs and then the rest of the wealth is shipped off to a few families somewhere else.
I like the convenience of big box stores too, but is this good for us? Do we even really have something on monopoly laws. How are the local people supposed to compete with this crap? Sure we get a little better deal on products but in the mean time its killing the foundation of a strong economy.
Oh Milty! It's interesting to see your transformation to this side when I've gone the opposite.
The problem with not doing anything Keynesian is you'll find yourself in a pinch when your medium of exchange evaporates right in front of your eyes. You have to start with a theory of money and work out from that center. When MxV turns negative the government MUST step in and print, spend, tax the rich and spend (for their own good) or the whole thing falls apart and we become the bitch of China, Russia, Germany, or whatever country emerges from the Hunger Games to shadow over our collapse.
Keynes was the problem because it was used prematurely, not because it's a problem in and of itself. What we should do is remove Keynes when the good times roll and implement strategic Keynesian stimulus in D-process times that expands demand without pushing prices up--instead of welfare we put people to work doing and making stuff that we all agree is mutually beneficial and the proper role of government.
Conservatives will be the first to jump my *** for this post but they should realize this is the system conservatives built. Now we need to use it.
*Edit* I didn't miss the point you were likely referring to on colonization but I'd like to hear your input before assuming too much.
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Oh Milty! It's interesting to see your transformation to this side when I've gone the opposite.
The problem with not doing anything Keynesian is you'll find yourself in a pinch when your medium of exchange evaporates right in front of your eyes. You have to start with a theory of money and work out from that center. When MxV turns negative the government MUST step in and print, spend, tax the rich and spend (for their own good) or the whole thing falls apart and we become the bitch of China, Russia, Germany, or whatever country emerges from the Hunger Games to shadow over our collapse.
Keynes was the problem because it was used prematurely, not because it's a problem in and of itself. What we should do is remove Keynes when the good times roll and implement strategic Keynesian stimulus in D-process times that expands demand without pushing prices up--instead of welfare we put people to work doing and making stuff that we all agree is mutually beneficial and the proper role of government.
Conservatives will be the first to jump my *** for this post but they should realize this is the system conservatives built. Now we need to use it.
*Edit* I didn't miss the point you were likely referring to on colonization but I'd like to hear your input before assuming too much.
Conservatives around here don't understand the "socialism" of Brigham Young, or his use of the "tithing office" to put people to work. Issuing tithing "scrip" to folks in need, who used it to patronize community business, who paid 10% tax on profits back to the tithing office.
Overall, he clearly understood that people needed to make use of the local resources generally, and that as long as folks rolled outta bed and went to work, there'd be more stuff for people to eat, wear, or work with. His example inspired a Utah banker, who used liberal policies in his banking to keep some economic activity going during the early depression years, successfully. That Mormon banker was appointed by FDR as Fed Chairman, with the result that the government got in the business of loaning money for housing, overall considered a great success economically.
Some would say this was all a mixed bag, a mishmash of things people did under severe pressures, casting about for "answers". Without any fixed ideological "cause".
If we sent a community to the moon, with bare essentials for survival, we'd see the use of "fiat currency" in promoting economic activity and increasing living standards. Ideologues centered on theories of market forces ignore the fundamental values of cooperative behaviors. Ideologues centered on ideals of economic equality or economic "justice" ignore the fundamental values of individual enterprise and motivation. If we can't put together a concept that embraces both, perhaps we just need a weaker government that will be kept out of the way of people solving their problems using both of these general ideas.
I love "cooperatives" and will jump at the chance to be a member. . . . credit unions, power cooperatives, ag cooperatives, and water cooperatives are all functioning very well and serving their members just as good as corporates serve their customers, right here in Utah.
There are some smaller "education cooperatives" now as well. Very good ideas. You can have all the benefits of member-owned industry, everything "socialism" promises, without the big bad government. We used to have community-based hospitals which deserved public support. We used to have a lot of community-owned or municipal power cooperatives all over Utah. . . . . and still have many. I think local coops own about one third of the IPP in Millard County. . . . cities all over southern Utah.
Overall, we can make use of tools like this on a wide scale without embracing the concepts of totalitarianism such as are involved in Codex Alimentaris and Agenda 21, or the removal of mankind from large swaths of our land under the false flags of environmentalism or conservation.
Whole or natural milk cooperative dairies could provide a means for people to have milk without the growth hormones, antibiotic contents, and allergenic denatured proteins from homogenization. Other food supply coops are needed to provide safer meat, cereals, and vegetables.
The possibilities are endless. People who are interested in working together to solve their direct local problems can do better than government bureaucrats any day.
Not to mention clear channel who owns your radio station in LA, and Denver, Boston, Miami. It's killing culture.
Every station has the same playlist. It's "Bob fm", and it's the same in every state. There is less individuality everyday.
Under Bill Clinton we deregulated the radio industry allowing a company like CC to come in and control everything.
They own venues, ticket agencies, and over a thousand radio stations. If you don't conform they will lock you out.
The strong arm bands to play they festivals with the unspoken notion that if they do not their air play will be affected.
Jobs are lost. Local radio stations are bought up, and the staffs are cut down or wiped out all together. Some DJs have never
lived in the states they are broadcast in. Their shows are recorded 2 weeks in advance, with a pre-approved bland set list,
and downloaded by their station days later.
We are seeing the same stores in every town, and we are losing local culture in the states. America used to be filled with a lot more diversity
in retail. Now it's all becoming the same. I don't see how this is helping us other than being more convenient.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Oh Milty! It's interesting to see your transformation to this side when I've gone the opposite.
The problem with not doing anything Keynesian is you'll find yourself in a pinch when your medium of exchange evaporates right in front of your eyes. You have to start with a theory of money and work out from that center. When MxV turns negative the government MUST step in and print, spend, tax the rich and spend (for their own good) or the whole thing falls apart and we become the bitch of China, Russia, Germany, or whatever country emerges from the Hunger Games to shadow over our collapse.
Keynes was the problem because it was used prematurely, not because it's a problem in and of itself. What we should do is remove Keynes when the good times roll and implement strategic Keynesian stimulus in D-process times that expands demand without pushing prices up--instead of welfare we put people to work doing and making stuff that we all agree is mutually beneficial and the proper role of government.
Conservatives will be the first to jump my *** for this post but they should realize this is the system conservatives built. Now we need to use it.
*Edit* I didn't miss the point you were likely referring to on colonization but I'd like to hear your input before assuming too much.
I hear you; and if my concerns as an activist/resistor/politician/whatever were primarily policy oriented, then I'd likely be pursuing something on these lines. But that hat hasn't fit comfortably.
I do my thing by writing within and against liberalism in general. In other words, 'out-there' political theory stuff. I do my best to be compassionate first-and-foremost.... and I very purposefully try not to foist any explicit political stance on my students (although if they dig for it or want to hear more, then I'm willing to teach).
Growing up when and how I did in the suburbs of SLC has made me pretty pessimistic about the de jure of American politics.
Anyhow, I'm sure we'll find another forum to talk about colonialism. Suffice it to say that it's pretty damn hard to take the Empire out of Keynes; it's there in function and imagination. Perhaps I yearn for something smaller scale? I'm actually still trying to figure that out.
You make solid points... especially given the political reality of the present.
You guys aren't thinking about this clearly. If I were to open, say a garden shop, I would do it in the same parking lot as a Home Depot or Lowes.
First and foremost, due to their huge advertising budget I would have tens of thousands of potential customers drive past my store on their way to these large retail locations.
Next, they have a very limited selection of plants and goods and every year it is always the same selection. Granted, what they have, they have a lot of but it is limited. A good portion of what they have is not even suitable to the climate where they are sold.
Too add, their service blows chunks. Rarely if ever do you find an employee that can answer your questions.
Lastly, they take very poor care of their product. Half the plants are wilted and on death's doorstep.
As a smaller, specialty garden center I could compete with the big boys simply by having a superior selection, superior customer service and superior quality product all while they paid to bring customers to me. Hell, if I siphoned off just 10% of their gardening customers I would have one hell of a business.
Maybe the problem isn't with monopolies but rather ingenuity and thinking outside the box?
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Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
I really hope Ricky finds some peace and contentment in life elsewhere so we don't have to see him popping up every 3-4 years for the next 30 years in the presidential election cycle.
Excellent post, babe. Looks like you and NAOS have a lot to talk about, although probably through completely different frames.
I had actually written a bit about your "crazy" ideas and how they really are not dissimilar to what most of us think, just more advanced and articulated. It didn't fit in well so I wiped it.
FYI, IPP's annual statements are on their website if you're interested. I skimmed last year's a couple weeks back and came away with 1) it's completely debt financed and not run for any profit (1.6% ROE last year), and 2) completely owned by municipalities. I know several cities in Utah own a small slice of that pie. Off topic--their non-union employees are complaining about benefit cuts in 2016(?) because Obama will tax the hell out of them as "cadillac plans". I haven't talked with union workers but it's likely the same story.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
You'll be fine here:
No you won't, that place looks dangerous to your ability to actually enjoy your vacation. I don't want my beaches to be stacked with people like a NYC parade route on Thanksgiving Day.
But I think the the litmus test for going to a place like that should be that if you are too scared to venture away from the bigger towns via taxi or a rented scooter or something to actually find a nice - more solitary - beach spot to relax at, you shouldn't go. You have to take some risks to have better travel experiences.
Which vary from person to person. Some do not want that quiet beach experience.
And some do want their own beach:
https://national-beach.philippinepictures.com/
I've been on some pretty good beaches p . . . even done baptisms in places like this.
I was not trying to belittle your preference for a quiet beach. For me it would depend on where I am going, why and who I am taking with me.