Rudy Gobert "Greatest Jazz Center of All Time" Countdown Thread

[framer]

#26 Kent Benson

Points 329
Rebounds 231
Blocks 28
Steals 39
Assists 39

Mostly known as the dude we traded Adrian Dantley for (well him and the forgettable Kelly Tripucka. It really set the current rebuild back. . .) Kent played for Indiana in college and only turned in a perfect season as a the team's star as a junior in 1976 (perfect meaning that they didn't lose a single game regular and post season.) He was the number one pick out of college. He was never able to break out in the NBA and was a 10 and 6 average guy for most of his career. When he came to the Jazz in 86 playing time was sparse behind emerging stars Mark Eaton and Karl Malone. He only averaged 12 minutes a game. He went on to play 2 games for Indiana the next season before playing one season overseas in Italy. Also well known for breaking Abdul-Jabbar's hand with his Jaw in his first game in the NBA. The NBA counted Abdul-Jabbar's two month recovery time as a suspension because that is how the NBA has ALWAYS rolled with the Lakers.

By the way, how BAWSE are those socks!

 

[fishonjazz]

OK, let's get something out of the way right now. Curtis didn't suck, he just couldn't overcome his injuries. Had his feet cooperated, he would have been one of the best centers we ever had. A lot of people were angry because the Jazz traded up to draft Borchardt over Boozer. Remember however that EVERY team passed on Boozer at least once, and Borchardt was a "swing for the fences" pick in 2003 that was possible because he was "on sale" due to his injury. That bet didn't work out and Borchardt appeared in less than 90 games. When he played, he could defend, pass and shoot from distance, which is very rare for a center.

I liked the Borchardt pick. The "conservative" Jazz FO DID swing for the fences. It was a last attempt to put together a championship caliber team for Stockton and Malone.

I agree with these.
Borchart was the right pick and if not for the injuries the jazz would have had no chance to get him as he would have went way earlier.
The Jazz took a risk with the injuries hoping that he would stay healthy. He didn't.

The warriors took a risk with stephs injury history hoping he would stay healthy too. He did

 

[fishonjazz]

By the way, how BAWSE are those socks!

Pretty bawse.

While on this topic, I like kanters long black socks look that he has worn lately and Burks choice of shoes he wears with the green jerseys

 

[Carbon13]

#27 Curtis Borchardt

Points 258
Rebounds 278
Blocks 46
Steals 14
Assists 64

OK, let's get something out of the way right now. Curtis didn't suck, he just couldn't overcome his injuries. Had his feet cooperated, he would have been one of the best centers we ever had. A lot of people were angry because the Jazz traded up to draft Borchardt over Boozer. Remember however that EVERY team passed on Boozer at least once, and Borchardt was a "swing for the fences" pick in 2003 that was possible because he was "on sale" due to his injury. That bet didn't work out and Borchardt appeared in less than 90 games. When he played, he could defend, pass and shoot from distance, which is very rare for a center. I thought he went on to use his Stanford degree, but it appears that he was paying overseas up until a year or two ago. Good for him.

The lesson I take from Borchardt, and backed up by other examples, is that lingering foot issues for big men almost never go away, due to their weight, the size of their feet, and the stress of playing in the NBA. Thus I have almost no hope for Joel Embiid, although I hope he beats the odds. It also makes me happy that Gobert has shown no signs of lingering injury despite the pace he plays at.

If I remember correctly, Borchardt broke his navicular bone in his foot, the same bone as Joel Embiid. Interesting how the Jazz frame of thought in 2003 is so close to Philadelphia's last year. I hope Embiid is able to play but it was a risky decision on their part.

 

[Primetime]

Found this in todays "10 Things I Like and Don’t Like" from Zach Lowe.

6. Rudy Gobert’s Passing

Gobert has 23 assists this season. That doesn’t sound like much, but Gobert only bumbled his way into seven assists last season, in just 120 fewer minutes than he’s logged in 2014-15. Baby steps, people.

Gobert in recent games has flashed a surprising ability to map the floor in an instant on the pick-and-roll. He’s caught the ball on the move in the paint, read the help defense, and dropped off slick little interior dishes to his big-man partner waiting in the dunk zone along the baseline.

That kind of spacing isn’t optimal; ideally, you’d want a shooting power forward around Gobert’s basket cuts, and the Jazz have devoted a lot of minutes to seeing how Trevor Booker and Enes Kanter might fit that role. But if Gobert can develop just enough as a passer, it might convince Snyder to let the Gobert/Derrick Favors duo breathe a bit.

By the way: Let’s hold off rushing Kanter out the door just because Gobert has had a nice second season. Gobert is young, he fouls a ton, and as a big with zero range, he’s a delicate fit on any team. Kanter’s contract talks could get ugly this summer, but there’s nothing wrong with having three highly paid big men on the same roster. It helps to get one of them at a discount, as the Bulls did with Taj Gibson, but it’s too early for Utah to just cut bait on any young guy.

Gobert has surely done enough for Utah to test the sign-and-trade market on Kanter, but that can be tough with so many teams hoarding enough cap space to sign Kanter outright.

 

[framer]

Found this in todays "10 Things I Like and Don’t Like" from Zach Lowe.

Except no one can sign Kanter outright, that is the beauty of the situation and why Kanter is different from Al and Paul. I'm really leaning to matching whatever Kanter gets (and making sure everyone knows we are going to match) then spending the midlevel exception on a Randy Foye-like Combo guard and rolling with that next year along with our BPA draft choice. If teams are willing to pay Kanter the Max now, there will be teams willing to trade for his Max contract after he is a year better and more experienced.

 

[framer]

And yeah, the best part of Rudy's passing is that he has learned all of that in the last year, which is insane. Especially when you add it to his dramatic improvement in free throw shooting. I suspect that type of self awareness and work ethic will translate into a couple of offensive moves at some point in the future.

 

[fishonjazz]

And yeah, the best part of Rudy's passing is that he has learned all of that in the last year, which is insane. Especially when you add it to his dramatic improvement in free throw shooting. I suspect that type of self awareness and work ethic will translate into a couple of offensive moves at some point in the future.

He even had a lefty baby hook last night that looked ok. (Though he missed it)

 

[fishonjazz]

Look who is on the game tickets for Fridays game

 

[Stifle Tower]

Except no one can sign Kanter outright, that is the beauty of the situation and why Kanter is different from Al and Paul. I'm really leaning to matching whatever Kanter gets (and making sure everyone knows we are going to match) then spending the midlevel exception on a Randy Foye-like Combo guard and rolling with that next year along with our BPA draft choice. If teams are willing to pay Kanter the Max now, there will be teams willing to trade for his Max contract after he is a year better and more experienced.

However, I think the strategy for DL might be to a) offer Kanter a Favors-type deal at 12:00.01 on July 1st, with a very short window to accept (as in hours) or b) bemoan the fact the Jazz tried to reach a deal and believe they'll have to let him go.

What's the advantage of letting a team know you're going to match? . Saying the Jazz would match any offer for Hayward certainly didn't discourage Charlotte. And who knows...maybe had they thought $13M would be too high for Utah, the offer sheet would have been less. Saying you're going to match just means a team knows they'll have to significantly overpay if they have any chance of making you reconsider and decide to let that player go. If Kanter doesn't get an offer, then negotiations still have to be done and can still get nasty. Kanter and his agent could simply say Enes is going to play for the QO of $7.4M and become a free agent in 2016. In fact, if I were Enes, I might do that anyway. Cap is skyrocketing and most every team would be able to make a big offer for Kanter. If he keeps improving, he stands to gain a TON of money by waiting. Demand the max or just play for the QO and take out an insurance policy in case of injury (should have gone to law school...I would have been one hell of an agent!).

 

[BabyPeterzz]

The pass at 0:12. So sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t9i0E0g7bY

 

[Stifle Tower]

I haven't calculated that far out yet, but I would estimate that he could move up as much as 8 or 9 more places, and probably break the top 10 by all-star break next year if he continues to improve and get minutes.

I figured you must have them all done to be able to move Gobert up one notch at a time. Ah well, I've enjoyed the trip down memory lane for each of the centers to date. Gobert will enter "elite" territory soon enough.

 

[Jamezz]

Add some muscle to that big body of his and we're talking about some serious abuse down near the rim.

*This message not intended to be an UDQ

 

[framer]

I figured you must have them all done to be able to move Gobert up one notch at a time. Ah well, I've enjoyed the trip down memory lane for each of the centers to date. Gobert will enter "elite" territory soon enough.

I have them in quadrants roughly sorted by points with the total fantasy score settled out for the next six or seven. I haven't totaled out Memo, Ostertag, or Eaton for instance, because totaling the numbers for 59 or so guys all at once is a lot of darn work, especially if they have multiple seasons with playoff appearances. To give you an idea, Gobert is moving close to 800 fantasy points and that puts him about a third of the way to Greg Foster.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Would love to see Gobert put on 4-5 pounds each of the next three years, all the while remaining quick, spry, and injury-free.

Rudy Gobawse.

 

[framer]

#25 Kyrylo Fesenko

Points 329
Rebounds 299
Blocks 58
Steals 17
Assists 51

Yep, that time has arrived when Rudy puts Fes into the rearview mirror. If the Jazz had an all time quote team, Fes would be on there. Dude was flat out hilarious, and had mad athletic skills for his size, he just never seemed like he was able to play basketball. He would show marvelous flashes where he seemed unstoppable and a possible future cornerstone then would just slide into Ameachiville. In that sense he was the anti-Gobert getting career highs in points and rebounds (12 and 11, respectively in one game against Houston in 2008. I really thought it was better than that. . .) and never reaching either total again. He signed a three year contract starting in 2007 as a second round pick traded from the 76'rs, and spurned a multi-year contract from Houston to play for the Jazz for one more season in 2010. That was a bad decision as he soon found himself out of the league. I last saw him playing for the Wolves Summer League team this year, but he didn't stick. It appears that his goal for getting back into the league was to get his family out of the Ukraine where he fears for their safety. I'll cheer for him whatever life brings.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

^
Can someone please find all the Fes/Kicky pics?

 

[Stifle Tower]

I have them in quadrants roughly sorted by points with the total fantasy score settled out for the next six or seven. I haven't totaled out Memo, Ostertag, or Eaton for instance, because totaling the numbers for 59 or so guys all at once is a lot of darn work, especially if they have multiple seasons with playoff appearances. To give you an idea, Gobert is moving close to 800 fantasy points and that puts him about a third of the way to Greg Foster.

I said NO names. Going to have to neg you.
JK. I know it's a lot of work. This just might be the best thread ever and is much appreciated. I'll continue to rep you (positively) as you post each center he passes.

 

[Stifle Tower]

#25 Kyrylo Fesenko

Points 329
Rebounds 299
Blocks 58
Steals 17
Assists 51

Yep, that time has arrived when Rudy puts Fes into the rearview mirror. If the Jazz had an all time quote team, Fes would be on there. Dude was flat out hilarious, and had mad athletic skills for his size, he just never seemed like he was able to play basketball. He would show marvelous flashes where he seemed unstoppable and a possible future cornerstone then would just slide into Ameachiville. In that sense he was the anti-Gobert getting career highs in points and rebounds (12 and 11, respectively in one game against Houston in 2008. I really thought it was better than that. . .) and never reaching either total again. He signed a three year contract starting in 2007 as a second round pick traded from the 76'rs, and spurned a multi-year contract from Houston to play for the Jazz for one more season in 2010. That was a bad decision as he soon found himself out of the league. I last saw him playing for the Wolves Summer League team this year, but he didn't stick. It appears that his goal for getting back into the league was to get his family out of the Ukraine where he fears for their safety. I'll cheer for him whatever life brings.

Hope he's successful in getting his family out. Can't imagine what it's like in that part of the world.

Everytime I see you post another center that Gobert has passed, "Memory" from Barbara Streisand goes through my head. Does that make me gay (not that there's anything wrong with that)? I just had a gay colleague once tell me Ms. Streisand is a huge favorite amongst his crowd.

"Memory, all alone in the moonlight
I can smile at the old days, I was beautiful then
I remember the time I knew what happiness was
Let the memory live again"


As for your reference to Amaechiville, we could probably put that to the music of Jimmy Buffet (Wastin' Away Again in Amaechiville).

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

#24 Archie Moses

Points 1 (One real cute kid)
Rebounds 2 (One for each knee surgery--way to bounce back, kid)
Blocks 17 (if you've been to a bar with him,you know he's a cockblocker and a half)
Steals 6 (Stolen a few ladies' hearts before)
Assists 37 (a cockblocker yes, but he's an even better wingman)
Months Lifting 5 (check out his guns yo)