Rumor: Jazz prepared to match 'any offer' for Hayward.

[Stifle Tower]

You are assuming that Boston would take him with that contract.

If it's rumored that several teams are considering signing him, there will be a market, even if he's a little overpriced. Once the Lebron-3 return to Miami and Carmelo signs with Chicago or Houston, a number of teams will be looking for the next best option. And that will be 1) Love in a trade; 2) Hayward. In fact, in the three days allowed to decide to match Hayward's offer sheet, if I were Lindsey, I'd call every other team in the NBA to see if there were interest in a trade. Hayward would have to provide his consent to be traded, of course, but if he didn't want to remain in Utah, I'd give him his wish. I'd just want some compensation in return. Of course, this should all be worked out in a S&T before an offer sheet is signed. Only way it wouldn't be is if the other team thought the rumor that Utah would match any offer was just a bluff.

 

[cowhide]

The Rockets have big plans... I think a team could swoop in and offer Parsons the max and it would really screw up what they are trying to do. Them not picking up his option was a bit risky to me.

I really just brought up Parsons as the best comp for Hayward. To attract Parsons it would take the max... so if you get Gtime at less than the max you pump your fist and move on. I think he will have to be our starting SF next year.

I disagree, the Rockets are trying to open cap space, they give Parsons a max deal they are screwed trying to bring in Carmelo or another big free agent. I just can't believe that people are so willing to just hand out Max deals to average to good players in the NBA. It seems like insanity to me. I think the Jazz could wait a little and see if Houston really will match Parsons or if they go after a big fish instead. I certainly think Parson's would jump at a $10 -11 million dollar deal with a poison pill in it. The dude made less that a million this year. I just don't see Houston wanting to invest that much in Parson because basically they are stuck with the same team they had last year if they do.

 

[cowhide]

Has anyone consider the possibility that these "rumors" of multiple teams wanting to give Hayward a max deal are b#&$(#hit. Look how many rumors during the draft were bogus. I may be wrong but if players like hayward get max deals then there is no wonder why seats cost so much and beer is 7.00 bucks a pop.

 

[akirac73]

Like others have said, I think it may have been better for the Jazz to take the stance that they will only match up to $X/year so other teams will go in with a more reasonable offer which would be easy to match. Another downfall for going the "we will match anything" route, is that we basically ruin our negotiating position with any of our other players coming up for new contracts. The message the Jazz are sending is, "Hey, it's okay if you don't live up to expectations, you show that you're not a leader and a winner, and have the worst shooting season of your career...you're still deserving of a huge payday. That's how the Utah Jazz roll, money grows on trees for us."

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I disagree, the Rockets are trying to open cap space, they give Parsons a max deal they are screwed trying to bring in Carmelo or another big free agent.

That is literally what I said Cowhide... someone could come in and offer him the max and screw up their plans. Not saying I would do it, but someone could. They think they can sign a max free agent and then also sign Parsons... Offering Parsons the max would mess up their plan. Also, they are likely to try and use him is a sign and trade. I wouldn't wait around if I was him.

 

[silesian]

Don't worry, be happy

Here's a novel idea: it's the Miller's money. If they want to spend it, it's their prerogative. Stop worrying about how other people want to spend their money.

I agree, the amount the Millers spend is their prerogative and it is none of our business. If they choose to give Lucas and Ian Clarke max deals, it will have no bearing on Jazz wins or losses or to fan's enjoyment of Jazz basketball.

Moderators, please close this thread.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Has anyone consider the possibility that these "rumors" of multiple teams wanting to give Hayward a max deal are b#&$(#hit. Look how many rumors during the draft were bogus. I may be wrong but if players like hayward get max deals then there is no wonder why seats cost so much and beer is 7.00 bucks a pop.

Yes, and that's why the Jazz have always taken the stance that players should go out and establish their market value. Backfired with Raja 1.0 because he didn't give Utah a chance to offer him equal or better. Worked with Millsap as they matched the Portland offer (but ruffled the feathers of his uncle/agent). Backfired with Matthews. May have been able to sign him for less. But NO ONE saw that kind of offer coming, so I don't blame KOC.

 

[silesian]

"Sources"

" Jazz are prepared to match any offers to restricted free agent Gordon Hayward, per sources. Phoenix, Boston and Charlotte all interested. "

Are these the same sources that swore the Jazz offered Favors to move up? Or the sources that swore Exum would be picked before 5? Or the ones who said "Sixers will do anything to get Wiggins?"

More likely they are extrapolating from less categorical statements like the ones made by Dennis.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I agree, the amount the Millers spend is their prerogative and it is none of our business. If they choose to give Lucas and Ian Clarke max deals, it will have no bearing on Jazz wins or losses or to fan's enjoyment of Jazz basketball.

Moderators, please close this thread.

Or you could just decide to take the AKMVP route if you feel so strongly that a particular personnel move has destroyed the team and taken away your loyalty. May I suggest the Nets, where the owner has unlimited funds and bought a championship. Oh wait...

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't really think there is a right or wrong when it comes to what message they put out there... teams are going to offer what they will. Hayward's agent was very wise... there are a lot of teams with cap space and not many good free agents out there. It's not like teams are going "they said they'd only match a $10 M dollar per year offer... Let's offer 11 M they wouldn't lie to us".

Also, I think the teams can work on the sign and trade after the offer sheet has been signed. I know Minny was trying to do that with Batum and I believe Phx did it with Joe Johnson years ago. So, we really hold all the cards.

I think what I would do is offer him 11 or 12 per year right out of the shoot to let him know you want him. I would then tell him I expect you to shop yourself around for the best deal, but that no matter what we are going to match. Teams won't do him a favor and sign him to the max just to help him out. This will tie up their cap space for 3 days while other guys are getting signed.

I'd like to see him come back and play for a different coach. I think he is our best solution at SF. If he gets offered the max and we sign and trade him I will also understand. Either way... he ain't walking for nothing.

 

[mellow]

Locke just said that it was important to note that the jazz are maintains a open dialogue with Hayward's agent and will be through out the process. They don't want to have him get an offer from another team before they get a chance to match the same dollar figures on the Jazz terms.

Locke said, they don't want to make the mistake that some teams foolishly make by saying to the player "you go find out what the market is and get an offer an we will match it."

Yes, Locke is perfectly aware of the circumstances surrounding Paul Milsap and Wes Mathews. I really really like the way Dennis Lindzey conducts business.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Locke just said that it was important to note that the jazz are maintains a open dialogue with Hayward's agent and will be through out the process. They don't want to have him get an offer from another team before they get a chance to match the same dollar figures on the Jazz terms.

Locke said, they don't want to make the mistake that some teams foolishly make by saying to the player "you go find out what the market is and get an offer an we will match it."

Yes, Locke is perfectly aware of the circumstances surrounding Paul Milsap and Wes Mathews. I really really like the way Dennis Lindzey conducts business.

Locke's comments make me repeat (for confirmation) one of my prior questions. If, as he states, the jazz want a chance to match on their terms. Does that mean there are different ways a similar contract could be structured (frontloaded/backloaded?). And if not why would it matter if we just match another offer?

 

[mellow]

Portland killed the Millers on the Milsap contract. They had to come up with $10 million the day they matched. KOC was pissed, but Milsap was like, what ? They told me to find an offer so I did.

Rumour was that Portland knew the Jazz would match, and also knew that July cash flow was tight in the Miller Companies so they constructed the contract to be purposely painful.

In other news
Chris Herring @HerringWSJ
Pacers produced a movie for Lance, but he'll probably show up late for it. "My bad, Larry; I didn't wanna sit through boring previews!"

Can one of you clever young punks put together a highlight video of Gordon Hayward showing just why he should stay with the Jazz at a responsible price. TIA.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Not that this really matters but on Sportscenter when talking about the Big3 FA contracts and how much they might agree to take and how much money the Heat would have in cap space, when discussing Wade you could see Hayward (under SG) and had his dollar figure showing $10.5M.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Which until it actually happens, is exactly the thing you say.

I don't really have any concerns about how the Jazz approach this (or really anything).

 

[Twin Towers]

It doesn't matter how the Miller's spend their money? I agree in terms of legally or morally. I don't care what people spend their money on.

As a fan......Of course we should care how they spend the money. Fans view teams in the eyes of being a general manager. If we sign this guy to X contract its going to effect how many players we can sign afterwards.

If there was not a cap or a limit on how much we could spend.......Of course it would not matter. Who cares not our money.

But it is our cap space. And as a fan you want each player paid the right amount so you can make other moves. If you don't think we should worry about this because "its not our money." you could use that logic with wins and losses. Its not OUR TEAM.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I agree, the amount the Millers spend is their prerogative and it is none of our business. If they choose to give Lucas and Ian Clarke max deals, it will have no bearing on Jazz wins or losses or to fan's enjoyment of Jazz basketball.

Moderators, please close this thread.

I don't quite follow the logic asserting that if the Millers give Lucas and Clarke max deals it won't have any bearing on wins or losses. I can't see any realistic or even half-baked scenario in which this is the case. Am I being thick, or is a very, very questionable assertion?

 

[Stifle Tower]

I don't really think there is a right or wrong when it comes to what message they put out there... teams are going to offer what they will. Hayward's agent was very wise... there are a lot of teams with cap space and not many good free agents out there. It's not like teams are going "they said they'd only match a $10 M dollar per year offer... Let's offer 11 M they wouldn't lie to us".

Also, I think the teams can work on the sign and trade after the offer sheet has been signed. I know Minny was trying to do that with Batum and I believe Phx did it with Joe Johnson years ago. So, we really hold all the cards.

I think what I would do is offer him 11 or 12 per year right out of the shoot to let him know you want him. I would then tell him I expect you to shop yourself around for the best deal, but that no matter what we are going to match. Teams won't do him a favor and sign him to the max just to help him out. This will tie up their cap space for 3 days while other guys are getting signed.

I'd like to see him come back and play for a different coach. I think he is our best solution at SF. If he gets offered the max and we sign and trade him I will also understand. Either way... he ain't walking for nothing.

Nope. If the offer sheet is signed and submitted to the league office, there can't be adjustments. The team has three days to match or refuse. Once matched, a trade is no longer possible to the offering team for at least 1 year.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Portland killed the Millers on the Milsap contract. They had to come up with $10 million the day they matched. KOC was pissed, but Milsap was like, what ? They told me to find an offer so I did.

Rumour was that Portland knew the Jazz would match, and also knew that July cash flow was tight in the Miller Companies so they constructed the contract to be purposely painful.

In other news
Chris Herring @HerringWSJ
Pacers produced a movie for Lance, but he'll probably show up late for it. "My bad, Larry; I didn't wanna sit through boring previews!"

Can one of you clever young punks put together a highlight video of Gordon Hayward showing just why he should stay with the Jazz at a responsible price. TIA.

Sure Portland wanted to include a "poison pill" so the Millers wouldn't match. KOC and the Millers thought the contract was a little high, and the bonus amount was unorthodox. But you can't tell me they couldn't just call up Zion's Bank and ask for the money up front. Short-term loan would be approved in a matter of hours.

Take your choice of any game except the one against OKC. There are plenty of "lowlights" showing why he should be GRATEFUL to get Favors-like money.

 

[cowhide]

Yes, and that's why the Jazz have always taken the stance that players should go out and establish their market value. Backfired with Raja 1.0 because he didn't give Utah a chance to offer him equal or better. Worked with Millsap as they matched the Portland offer (but ruffled the feathers of his uncle/agent). Backfired with Matthews. May have been able to sign him for less. But NO ONE saw that kind of offer coming, so I don't blame KOC.

Well so 2 out of 3 isn't very good and I could argue that the Jazz failed with Millsap. If the Jazz truly will match a MAX deal for Hayward then why didn't they just up their offer a little. According to reports they weren't that far apart, I think the reason why the Jazz allow Jazz FAs to go to market is they believe that they are asking for too much money. The Jazz front office idea of allowing the market to set the price has been proven wrong. They need better negotiators. That is why they lost Raja and Matthews. It is better to up your offer a little than allow some stupid GM to give a player more than he is worth. It is the chance you take but it seems like it doesn't work well that way considering the past examples.

If the Jazz wanted to pay him $11 million and Hayward wanted $12.5 why not meet in the middle and call it a day? You take a chance of having to deal with the possibility of a crazy offer and losing your player instead of paying a little more. So either the Jazz don't think Hayward will get a deal higher than they offered, or they don't want to keep him that badly or they suck as negotiators or they are hoping he doesn't get any offers that are better than they already offered. The last option seems like a big gamble to me. So in the end the Jazz can either lose him for nothing or pay too much to keep him and all they had to do is up their offer a little.