What's new
By:

Rumor: Jazz prepared to match 'any offer' for Hayward.

jazzrule said:
[h=4]Jeff Green[/h]Not sure if anyone has noticed, but Hayward's stats are eerily similar to those of Greens (for 2013-14 season).
JG: 16.9PPG (41.2FG, 34.1 3PT, 79.5FT) 1.7AST, 4.6RPG,0.7SPG, 0.6BPG, 2TOPG in 34.2 minutes
G-Time: 16.2ppg(41.3%FG , 30.4% 3PT, 81.6% FT), 5.2APG, 5.1RPG, 1.4SPG, 0.5BPG, 2.8TOPG, 36.4MIN/Game
Obviously, Haywards stats look fractionally better. But they're basically the same. So why not sign and trade Hayward for Green if Hayward wants too much? Green is earning about 9mil/year, so that would be a decrease if Hayward wants a Max (or close to Max).
[h=4]Chandler Parsons[/h]He's going to be a RFA, but if Houston get their man (Melo, James?) they'll let Parsons walk. I'm not sure how much teams are willing to pay for Parsons, but if the contract is below Haywards, why not? He impressed me during the season by scorching up numerous teams.
Statline (13-14): 16.6PPG (47.2FG%, 37 3PT%, 74.2 FT%) 4.0APG, 5.5RPG, 1.2SPG, 0.4BPG, 1.9TOPG in 37.6Mins
He's basically a better shooter, and his stats are also quite similar to Hayward. So if Hayward does walk, he'll be another great/similar replacement.
Even though Jeff Green and Parsons stats might not be as impressive as Haywards (though extremely similar), you have to remember they're not the focal points of their offense, whilst Hayward was, allowing him to do more and pad his stats. This is especially the case for Parsons, being surrounded by famous ballhogger and flopper James Harden.
These are some similar replacements to Hayward. We may need to really consider them if Hayward gets a poison pill offer.
Click to expand...

These are two great examples of players who are basically equal talents and are at a lower price. I would do either of those deals.
 
jazzrule said:
[h=4]Jeff Green[/h]Not sure if anyone has noticed, but Hayward's stats are eerily similar to those of Greens (for 2013-14 season).
JG: 16.9PPG (41.2FG, 34.1 3PT, 79.5FT) 1.7AST, 4.6RPG,0.7SPG, 0.6BPG, 2TOPG in 34.2 minutes
G-Time: 16.2ppg(41.3%FG , 30.4% 3PT, 81.6% FT), 5.2APG, 5.1RPG, 1.4SPG, 0.5BPG, 2.8TOPG, 36.4MIN/Game
Obviously, Haywards stats look fractionally better. But they're basically the same. So why not sign and trade Hayward for Green if Hayward wants too much? Green is earning about 9mil/year, so that would be a decrease if Hayward wants a Max (or close to Max).
[h=4]Chandler Parsons[/h]He's going to be a RFA, but if Houston get their man (Melo, James?) they'll let Parsons walk. I'm not sure how much teams are willing to pay for Parsons, but if the contract is below Haywards, why not? He impressed me during the season by scorching up numerous teams.
Statline (13-14): 16.6PPG (47.2FG%, 37 3PT%, 74.2 FT%) 4.0APG, 5.5RPG, 1.2SPG, 0.4BPG, 1.9TOPG in 37.6Mins
He's basically a better shooter, and his stats are also quite similar to Hayward. So if Hayward does walk, he'll be another great/similar replacement.
Even though Jeff Green and Parsons stats might not be as impressive as Haywards (though extremely similar), you have to remember they're not the focal points of their offense, whilst Hayward was, allowing him to do more and pad his stats. This is especially the case for Parsons, being surrounded by famous ballhogger and flopper James Harden.
These are some similar replacements to Hayward. We may need to really consider them if Hayward gets a poison pill offer.
Click to expand...

I'd take any of those two players over Hayward - No Questions Asked.
 
l Abach l said:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1331120

It's interesting to see what non Utah Jazz fans think Hayward's value is. I think that the general consensus on realgm is that he is worth around 7-9 but will get paid around 12-14. I he comes back, but I definitely don't want another AK47 situation.
Click to expand...

So are you implying that the Jazz FO should base its contract decisions on the "collective wisdom" of message board posters?
 
jazzrule said:
[h=4]Jeff Green[/h]Not sure if anyone has noticed, but Hayward's stats are eerily similar to those of Greens (for 2013-14 season).
JG: 16.9PPG (41.2FG, 34.1 3PT, 79.5FT) 1.7AST, 4.6RPG,0.7SPG, 0.6BPG, 2TOPG in 34.2 minutes
G-Time: 16.2ppg(41.3%FG , 30.4% 3PT, 81.6% FT), 5.2APG, 5.1RPG, 1.4SPG, 0.5BPG, 2.8TOPG, 36.4MIN/Game
Obviously, Haywards stats look fractionally better. But they're basically the same. So why not sign and trade Hayward for Green if Hayward wants too much? Green is earning about 9mil/year, so that would be a decrease if Hayward wants a Max (or close to Max).
[h=4]Chandler Parsons[/h]He's going to be a RFA, but if Houston get their man (Melo, James?) they'll let Parsons walk. I'm not sure how much teams are willing to pay for Parsons, but if the contract is below Haywards, why not? He impressed me during the season by scorching up numerous teams.
Statline (13-14): 16.6PPG (47.2FG%, 37 3PT%, 74.2 FT%) 4.0APG, 5.5RPG, 1.2SPG, 0.4BPG, 1.9TOPG in 37.6Mins
He's basically a better shooter, and his stats are also quite similar to Hayward. So if Hayward does walk, he'll be another great/similar replacement.
Even though Jeff Green and Parsons stats might not be as impressive as Haywards (though extremely similar), you have to remember they're not the focal points of their offense, whilst Hayward was, allowing him to do more and pad his stats. This is especially the case for Parsons, being surrounded by famous ballhogger and flopper James Harden.
These are some similar replacements to Hayward. We may need to really consider them if Hayward gets a poison pill offer.
Click to expand...

Again, do you, or anybody, think that if Parsons or Jeff Green were handed the reigns and asked to be the #1 option that their scoring and scoring efficiency would be materially better than Hayward's?

Does anyone ever consider context when making comparisons between players? The world is dynamic not static. Change the situations and outcomes will vary--often significantly.

It amazes me how 'experts' almost invariably fall into the same trap. For example, if a penalty is called or not called in particular situation, it effects everything that follows. Not quite as extreme as the 'butterfly effect,' but the assumption that the sequence of events remains the same, even if we change the events within the sequence, is simply not true.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Hayward's not a #1 option either, how is talking about him in that context relevant?
Click to expand...

I've said repeatedly I don't think Hayward is a #1 option, but in comparing Hayward to Parsons and Green, it helps to think what are possible/likely outcomes if Parson or Green were made the #1 option (something neither is, like Hayward) and how that wold likely affect their scoring efficiency (again Locke as documented that in these situations, scoring efficiency ALWAYS falls, with one exception of Danny Granger) rather than just compare stats as if all else were equal and draw conclusions.
 
jazzrule said:
Jeff Green

Not sure if anyone has noticed, but Hayward's stats are eerily similar to those of Greens (for 2013-14 season).
JG: 16.9PPG (41.2FG, 34.1 3PT, 79.5FT) 1.7AST, 4.6RPG,0.7SPG, 0.6BPG, 2TOPG in 34.2 minutes
G-Time: 16.2ppg(41.3%FG , 30.4% 3PT, 81.6% FT), 5.2APG, 5.1RPG, 1.4SPG, 0.5BPG, 2.8TOPG, 36.4MIN/Game
Obviously, Haywards stats look fractionally better. But they're basically the same. So why not sign and trade Hayward for Green if Hayward wants too much? Green is earning about 9mil/year, so that would be a decrease if Hayward wants a Max (or close to Max).
Chandler Parsons

He's going to be a RFA, but if Houston get their man (Melo, James?) they'll let Parsons walk. I'm not sure how much teams are willing to pay for Parsons, but if the contract is below Haywards, why not? He impressed me during the season by scorching up numerous teams.
Statline (13-14): 16.6PPG (47.2FG%, 37 3PT%, 74.2 FT%) 4.0APG, 5.5RPG, 1.2SPG, 0.4BPG, 1.9TOPG in 37.6Mins
He's basically a better shooter, and his stats are also quite similar to Hayward. So if Hayward does walk, he'll be another great/similar replacement.
Even though Jeff Green and Parsons stats might not be as impressive as Haywards (though extremely similar), you have to remember they're not the focal points of their offense, whilst Hayward was, allowing him to do more and pad his stats. This is especially the case for Parsons, being surrounded by famous ballhogger and flopper James Harden.
These are some similar replacements to Hayward. We may need to really consider them if Hayward gets a poison pill offer.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you believe Hayward's season was not an outlier.
There is not a "poison pill" any team can put in a contract offer. He's either offered more than what the Jazz want to pay or he's not. If he gets a MAX offer with 4.5% raises each season, then the Jazz may not match. I don't know what their threshold is, but I have to believe it's a lot higher than what many of those on this board want to give Gordon.
 
Broncster said:
Well mr expert lets hear your well traveled version of NBA economics. I am sure everyone would love to understand them better.
Click to expand...

Here: if we want to keep him, and we do, we will have to overpay for him. We will have to overpay for anybody decent. It is what it is. I would not be surprised if he's offered the max and we match. I just don't get all the freaking out about it.
 
David Locke should be Haywards agent. The guy just spews Gordon love every chance he gets. He keeps repeating that no other player besides Maravich has averaged 16, 5, & 5. Those are terrible numbers if you considered the amount of touches he got last year. There is no way he will get those numbers going forward. How can you give a huge contract to someone who is going to average less than 14 ppg.
 
Parsons averaged like 19ppg in the 9 games Harden missed last year. Clearly hes a better shooter than Hayward

Hayward is more versatile (though Parsons is well above average at SF, with 4 assists per), Gordon looks to dribble more.
Parsons looks to shoot. The Jazz dont NEED Haywards playmaking anymore though, they have other viable options.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwZdoevq3E4
 
Walking over dimes to pick up pennies. The cap is going to explode upward. Grinding teeth over a few extra millions for Gordon is an exercise in futility. Most of the cards have already been dealt with the hiring of Snyder and the drafting of Exum. Snyder has to become one of the top coaches in the league and Exum has to become one of the best players in the league. Likewise, both Favors and Hayward have to up their games a notch. If those 4 components don't pan out, it is irrelevant what anybody is going to get paid. Worrying about "value" vs. "production" at this juncture is a complete waste of time.
 
The Pearl said:
Walking over dimes to pick up pennies. The cap is going to explode upward. Grinding teeth over a few extra millions for Gordon is an exercise in futility. Most of the cards have already been dealt with the hiring of Snyder and the drafting of Exum. Snyder has to become one of the top coaches in the league and Exum has to become one of the best players in the league. Likewise, both Favors and Hayward have to up their games a notch. If those 4 components don't pan out, it is irrelevant what anybody is going to get paid. Worrying about "value" vs. "production" at this juncture is a complete waste of time.
Click to expand...

This. Some people seem to be like Hayward at $12 M per yes all day. Hayward at $16 M per, no way he's not worth it. The extra 4 M doesn't buy anything meaningful. Hayward is extremely versatile and can fit in with just about anything we want to do. We keep him and figure out the rest.

Also, Ariza isn't good guys. He will get paid too much and end up being the OJ Mayo of this year's free agency.
 
The Pearl said:
Walking over dimes to pick up pennies. The cap is going to explode upward. Grinding teeth over a few extra millions for Gordon is an exercise in futility. Most of the cards have already been dealt with the hiring of Snyder and the drafting of Exum. Snyder has to become one of the top coaches in the league and Exum has to become one of the best players in the league. Likewise, both Favors and Hayward have to up their games a notch. If those 4 components don't pan out, it is irrelevant what anybody is going to get paid. Worrying about "value" vs. "production" at this juncture is a complete waste of time.
Click to expand...

This.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gn8DAHano8

.407 shooting 3's last season on 5.7 attempts per.

I understand the Wiz have John Wall..

The Jazz have Dante Exum
 
Ariza is 29. Hayward is 24. By the time Jazz need somebody at that position to be really good, Ariza will be out of the league.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top