Schooling

[PearlWatson]

The school itself is not that big a factor (i.e. admins, finances, etc.).

I just can't buy into Admins not being that big of a factor.

Principals choose the curriculum and methods used, at least in elementary schools.
I've known of teachers using an extremely effective method to teach reading for years and then a new principal shows up and demands some other method be used and then holds the teachers responsible for the diminished test scores because of it.

 

[CONAN]

I just can't buy into Admins not being that big of a factor.

Principals choose the curriculum and methods used, at least in elementary schools.
I've known of teachers using an extremely effective method to teach reading for years and then a new principal shows up and demands some other method be used and then holds the teachers responsible for the diminished test scores because of it.

Curriculum comes from the state. I didn't know there were schools where principals choose the curriculum. That's insane.

And principals having that much power over teachers is insane as well. The bottomline is if you can show via data that your methods work than there shouldn't be an issue.

Where principals have effect is in their ability to promote staff training. Because they do have a lot of power there with regards to general themes of the school.

Required anectdotal: I don't know a lot of teachers that are influenced heavily by their principal. But I do know colleagues that are influenced by principal-led leadership teams if that makes sense.

 

[moevillini]

Curriculum comes from the state. I didn't know there were schools where principals choose the curriculum. That's insane.

And principals having that much power over teachers is insane as well. The bottomline is if you can show via data that your methods work than there shouldn't be an issue.

Where principals have effect is in their ability to promote staff training. Because they do have a lot of power there with regards to general themes of the school.

Required anectdotal: I don't know a lot of teachers that are influenced heavily by their principal. But I do know colleagues that are influenced by principal-led leadership teams if that makes sense.

define curriculum...

in Illinois, the state sets broad standards that students are tested for, but the school district, and in some cases the individual schools, choose the specific curriculum to teach the skills needed to score well on the standardized tests

private schools (at least in Illinois) don't have to test their students, so they have more flexibility in choosing their curriculum. Many of them do test their students though, and their curricula don't differ that much from what the public schools are teaching

 

[CONAN]

define curriculum...

in Illinois, the state sets broad standards that students are tested for, but the school district, and in some cases the individual schools, choose the specific curriculum to teach the skills needed to score well on the standardized tests

private schools (at least in Illinois) don't have to test their students, so they have more flexibility in choosing their curriculum. Many of them do test their students though, and their curricula don't differ that much from what the public schools are teaching

The state has a curriculum. As teachers with state licenses we have to follow that. However, districts sometimes mess with them. And I'm sure schools do to some extent but there isn't a lot of variance. There could be but that school would risk funding. Charter and private schools probably have a little more leeway there.

Curriculum is about the same wherever you go. Whoever messes with it can't vary much or they'll get in trouble. Otherwise, what's the point of curriculum if everyone can just do their own thing anyway.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Ouch.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

I never knew one person could be so dense.

 

[Bronco70]

Definitely some exceptions out there. Wasn't talking about those.

Yeah, I know. I wasn't really addressing your post directly. My apologies.

As much a difference as the charter school has made for my 12 yr old (and it's a huge difference), we left our 10 year old in regular old public school. He does very well in the exact same environment his older brother struggled in. So, a lot of it has to do with the student. My wife and I have always taken a very hands-on approach with the boys' schooling, so that element has always been there. But where some struggle, others will excel.

 

[CONAN]

Yeah, I know. I wasn't really addressing your post directly. My apologies.

As much a difference as the charter school has made for my 12 yr old (and it's a huge difference), we left our 10 year old in regular old public school. He does very well in the exact same environment his older brother struggled in. So, a lot of it has to do with the student. My wife and I have always taken a very hands-on approach with the boys' schooling, so that element has always been there. But where some struggle, others will excel.

Parent/teacher conferences this week and it's tragic that the parents I see I don't need to see. They are involved in their kid's education and come to the conferences. Makes for a pleasant meeting. And the parents I need to see don't come because they don't care.

Again, there are exceptions (neither I nor my wife will go my daughter's conferences this week).

 

[bigb]

Parent/teacher conferences this week and it's tragic that the parents I see I don't need to see. They are involved in their kid's education and come to the conferences. Makes for a pleasant meeting. And the parents I need to see don't come because they don't care.

Again, there are exceptions (neither I nor my wife will go my daughter's conferences this week).

Either me or my wife have been to every conference for my daughter. She's never been in trouble or had bad grades of any kind. Tests well above grade level in everything. I see no reason to stop going to the conferences. It is sad to see how some parents just don't give a ****.

 

[CONAN]

Either me or my wife have been to every conference for my daughter. She's never been in trouble or had bad grades of any kind. Tests well above grade level in everything. I see no reason to stop going to the conferences. It is sad to see how some parents just don't give a ****.

It is one of the most tragic things I witness as a teacher.

 

[moevillini]

those of you who are teachers, or anyone for that matter who's familiar with it, what do you think of the IB curriculum?

I know of a number of schools that are using it quite successfully. Some have it as their only program, but others offer it as an option.

 

[Stoked]

It is one of the most tragic things I witness as a teacher.

I have one tomorrow at noon that my ex didn't let me know about. Trying to get off work to take the 40 minute drive up there to go.

 

[PearlWatson]

define curriculum...

in Illinois, the state sets broad standards that students are tested for, but the school district, and in some cases the individual schools, choose the specific curriculum to teach the skills needed to score well on the standardized tests

private schools (at least in Illinois) don't have to test their students, so they have more flexibility in choosing their curriculum. Many of them do test their students though, and their curricula don't differ that much from what the public schools are teaching

This is a matter of semantics. Until recently Utah has done its own curriculum*..."not so broad standards." The Districts decide on books to cover the curriculum. The Principals decide how the teachers implement the curriculum (methods, additional supplemental material and programs).

Like in my example where a group of first grade teachers learn and implement a certain method to teach reading under one principal, but the next principal can make the teachers implement another method of teaching reading if she/he is so inclined.

*But now Utah has adopted the "common core" which 44 other states share. For Utah that means about a 2 year jump in some standards.

 

[CONAN]

those of you who are teachers, or anyone for that matter who's familiar with it, what do you think of the IB curriculum?

I know of a number of schools that are using it quite successfully. Some have it as their only program, but others offer it as an option.

More details please.

 

[CONAN]

I have one tomorrow at noon that my ex didn't let me know about. Trying to get off work to take the 40 minute drive up there to go.

Ya, I'm trying to squeeze one in after school between soccer practices. I hate the divorced parent situation where one side hamstrings the other side on stuff like this (not saying that's your situation).

 

[CONAN]

This is a matter of semantics. Until recently Utah has done its own curriculum*..."not so broad standards." The Districts decide on books to cover the curriculum. The Principals decide how the teachers implement the curriculum (methods, additional supplemental material and programs).

Like in my example where a group of first grade teachers learn and implement a certain method to teach reading under one principal, but the next principal can make the teachers implement another method of teaching reading if she/he is so inclined.

*But now Utah has adopted the "common core" which 44 other states share. For Utah that means about a 2 year jump in standards. So a 3rd grader should be where a 5th grader used to be. What a mess.

Ya, call it what you want but most schools are gonna teach some form of reading, writing, and math sprinkled with other stuff.

And districts are trying to decide on books but that is not the case now. It's kind of a mess. But the idea is sound and really common sense if you think about it.

The reading program stuff is huge at those lower levels. That can make or break the school right there. It better have some heavy research behind it.

 

[Stoked]

Ya, I'm trying to squeeze one in after school between soccer practices. I hate the divorced parent situation where one side hamstrings the other side on stuff like this (not saying that's your situation).

My situation with my ex is actually fantastic. My wife and her get along and I get along with her boyfriend. It is the best ex relationship I have ever seen, no joke and not boasting. She simply forgot this time.

 

[CONAN]

My situation with my ex is actually fantastic. My wife and her get along and I get along with her boyfriend. It is the best ex relationship I have ever seen, no joke and not boasting. She simply forgot this time.

That is good. I hate it when the kids get used as pawns. And it's especially sad when one side is trying to do the right thing with a kid's education but the other side isn't supportive. Glad that's not the case.

 

[PearlWatson]

I'm in the Arlington, VA area

We need an ISP location confirmation on this.

 

[moevillini]

More details please.

IB is the International Baccalaureate program. I don't know much about it - it's something that originated in Europe probably 40 - 50 years ago, and is a fairly rigorous curriculum. Around here (Chicago area), I know of a few high schools that offer it as an option for their college-bound students, but I know there is a program for middle school as well. Colleges look upon it quite favorably.

That's about all I know about it.