Seeing AL Objectively - SLCdunk article

[Darkwing Duck]

The problem is that Jefferson has not shown an ability to be a good complementary/role player. Paul has. If Jefferson were more dynamic or efficient, I might be on board. If he could be signed for < $10mm and used off the bench, likewise. Paul is going to contribute in all facets of the game, regardless of the system run. He's the sort of player who feeds off smart players, making them, and by extension the team, better in the process.

When you look at the results, advance stats and the like, you see that Millsap and Jefferson are pretty much the same player. Their numbers are uncannily similar last year. Does mean that they likely should be paid the same, but this "all facets of the game, regardless of system run" seems kind of bogus to me.

 

[franklin]

Aren't you two cute. It means a lot coming from a functional alcoholic & a guy who brushes his teeth with bowl resin.

 

[NAOS]

If "advanced stats" say Paul and Al are basically the same player, then that says a lot more about the limitations of those stats than it does the players.

 

[NAOS]

If you are fighting an Army, and they keep bringing their troops down the same narrow canyon, then you obviously station your troops in a limited number of ways -- picking them off as they get to the bottleneck. Jefferson is our bottleneck. That he receives attention from the defense isn't necessarily a function of his dominance.

Have the Jazz diversified their ways to get into an offense? 1 guy can drive without a screen, and nobody is sure what kind of minutes and role he'll play. The 3pt shooters will help, but not much if we keep trudging down the same canyon.

 

[GVC]

Readily available NBA advanced stats aren't very advanced. I'd guess in the next 5 years a lot of the expensive and/or proprietary stats will be available online. Until then...

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

...smoke pot?

 

[franklin]

If you are fighting an Army, and they keep bringing their troops down the same narrow canyon, then you obviously station your troops in a limited number of ways -- picking them off as they get to the bottleneck. Jefferson is our bottleneck. That he receives attention from the defense isn't necessarily a function of his dominance.

Have the Jazz diversified their ways to get into an offense? 1 guy can drive without a screen, and nobody is sure what kind of minutes and role he'll play. The 3pt shooters will help, but not much if we keep trudging down the same canyon.

This is exactly what I've been saying. The Jazz need to build an offense that better benefits from Jeffersons strengths & attention he demands. The Jazz had some really well executed games last season running PnR with Sap & Miles when Miles gave up the ball. Watson & Tinsley weren't a shooting threat so packing the paint was easy & even more limited having Braille, Howard & CJ on the wings. No true small forward hurt on both ends of the floor. Jefferson was the only bright spot throughout the entire season yet he's the guy hated on the most?

Imagine how much better Hayward will be on the PnR when paint d is focusing on Jefferson? (Hayward is capable of turning into an absolute assassin here BTW)

Another area Jefferson isn't getting credit for is his role in starting fast breaks. He's pretty good at making outlet passes without turning the ball over. He's not supposed to beat everyone down the court in that role either. Put another dominant rebounder in & Jefferson can get into the offense a lot quicker.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

This is exactly what I've been saying. The Jazz need to build an offense that better benefits from Jeffersons strengths & attention he demands. The Jazz had some really well executed games last season running PnR with Sap & Miles when Miles gave up the ball. Watson & Tinsley weren't a shooting threat so packing the paint was easy & even more limited having Braille, Howard & CJ on the wings. No true small forward hurt on both ends of the floor. Jefferson was the only bright spot throughout the entire season yet he's the guy hated on the most?

Imagine how much better Hayward will be on the PnR when paint d is focusing on Jefferson? (Hayward is capable of turning into an absolute assassin here BTW)

Another area Jefferson isn't getting credit for is his role in starting fast breaks. He's pretty good at making outlet passes without turning the ball over. He's not supposed to beat everyone down the court in that role either. Put another dominant rebounder in & Jefferson can get into the offense a lot quicker.

In short, we need multi-faceted players like Hayward, like (possibly) Burks, like Favors...guys who can shoot, drive, get to the rim, get to the line, rebound, pass and play defense.

 

[franklin]

In short, we need multi-faceted players like Hayward, like (possibly) Burks, like Favors...guys who can shoot, drive, get to the rim, get to the line, rebound, pass and play defense.

We can move on to discussing how much & long to extend Jefferson for now?

 

[GVC]

Jefferson was the only bright spot throughout the entire season...

Millsap, Hayward, Burks, Favors, Tinsley? Carroll?

 

[GVC]

We can move on to discussing how much & long to extend Jefferson for now?

$30mm per year minimum.

 

[franklin]

Millsap, Hayward, Burks, Favors, Tinsley? Carroll?

To clarify, I was talking offensively. Which one(s) do you think was consistent throughout the entire season? Tinsley & Carroll are obvious cuts. Favors doesn't have an offensive game yet. Burks was an erradic rookie, as expected. Hayward has huge slumps & is young.

I guess you can put Millsap in there, especially with the improvements he makes every single offseason. He's very up & down though.

$30mm per year minimum.

CBA won't allow that.

 

[bjunior]

In short, we need multi-faceted players like Hayward, like (possibly) Burks, like Favors...guys who can shoot, drive, get to the rim, get to the line, rebound, pass and play defense.

We need Lebron James

 

[GVC]

To clarify, I was talking offensively. Which one(s) do you think was consistent throughout the entire season?

Seems as though you're talking about a lot less than that even. I agree that Al was the only Jazz man who could consistently score the basketball on isolation plays at an average-ish clip.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

We can move on to discussing how much & long to extend Jefferson for now?

Uh, at which of those is Al good?

 

[billyshelby]

More reductionist ******** from billyshelby (shocking). Cutting is a hell of a lot less effective after the defense is set, and Al is pretty ****ing slow making decisions with the ball in his hands.

What? Cutting is specifically designed to work against set defenses. I've never even heard of it as being a tool to use when defenses aren't set. And for the last 25 years under Sloan, we cut ruthlessly against set defenses. From the flex cuts we use to set up our offense to the cuts which are supposed to happen when the ball goes into the post, they're all designed to work in the set offense against a set defense. AK was our best cutter from the wing, and we felt his absence (in that department) last year immeasurably.

 

[NAOS]

This is exactly what I've been saying. The Jazz need to build an offense that better benefits from Jeffersons strengths & attention he demands. The Jazz had some really well executed games last season running PnR with Sap & Miles when Miles gave up the ball. Watson & Tinsley weren't a shooting threat so packing the paint was easy & even more limited having Braille, Howard & CJ on the wings. No true small forward hurt on both ends of the floor. Jefferson was the only bright spot throughout the entire season yet he's the guy hated on the most?

Imagine how much better Hayward will be on the PnR when paint d is focusing on Jefferson? (Hayward is capable of turning into an absolute assassin here BTW)

Another area Jefferson isn't getting credit for is his role in starting fast breaks. He's pretty good at making outlet passes without turning the ball over. He's not supposed to beat everyone down the court in that role either. Put another dominant rebounder in & Jefferson can get into the offense a lot quicker.

I wish I had your optimism. Even if I were to grant you that Jefferson had more room for improvement after, like, 9 years in the league, I haven't seen anything from Corbin et al. to give me a lot of hope that they can both design and manifest what you are calling for.

 

[franklin]

I wish I had your optimism. Even if I were to grant you that Jefferson had more room for improvement after, like, 9 years in the league, I haven't seen anything from Corbin et al. to give me a lot of hope that they can both design and manifest what you are calling for.

It's not that. I was calling for trading the guy/Harris for next to nothing 20 games into last season to get a number 4-6 & GSW pick. I think the Jazz have hitched their wagon to Jeff-Sap at this point. The other option is rebuild around unprovens.

27 y.o. JefferSap are one of the top front lines in the league, statistically speaking, so why not work with that instead of bitching about their shortcomings.

 

[GVC]

What? Cutting is specifically designed to work against set defenses. I've never even heard of it as being a tool to use when defenses aren't set.

Fair. Still, for player movement/cuts to be effective, the player with the ball in his hands needs to be able to make quick decisions AND make passes with some precision. I don't think Al has shown an ability to do either of those things. With that said, in the video posted by franklin, Al was able to make the required pass from the high post in a couple high-low situations. If Al doesn't show an ability to make passes to those out of his immediate field of vision, using him from the high post more frequently might leverage the defense more and improve the offense.

 

[GVC]

27 y.o. JefferSap are one of the top front lines in the league, statistically speaking, so why not work with that instead of bitching about their shortcomings.

If you don't find the current brand of Jazz basketball entertaining, and you don't think Al has the skill set and bball IQ to complement better players enough for the Jazz to become a contender (role and future salary are HUGE considerations here), should you just grin and bear it?