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Should a business be allowed to discrimate on the basis of a customer's sexual orientation?

DutchJazzer said:
well mock me all you want.

but this is not right!
why the **** do they need bakery a to give them a wedding cake while there are millions of others who would do it.
this is about forcing their lifestyle choice down people throats. it is no worse then ISIS!
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Dutchjazzer introducing here a corollary of Godwin's Law: The ISIS gambit. It is as follows: When one does not have any solid argument to present, and realizing the comparing the opposing side to Hitler is a tired and worn out trope, will instead compare the opposing side to ISIS.

Well done, DJ, well done.
 
Just to pre-empt the inevitable argument; sexual orientation and personal belief/ideology are two entirely distinct things. Sexual orientation is an inherent, immutable, and unchangeable attribute of a person's being and personality. It is moreover, benign in that it affects no one else beside the individual, let alone imposing any harm on anyone if acted upon. A belief/ideology is learned, malleable and not an inherent, immutable part of one's self/personality in any sense. It, moreover, has great potential to inflict harm on people if acted upon, or if even expressed.

There is thus no acceptable reason to discriminate against someone based on the former in any case, while it is entirely justifiable to discriminate against the latter in certain cases.
 
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jimmy eat jazz said:
Just to pre-empt the inevitable argument; sexual orientation and personal belief/ideology are two entirely distinct things. Sexual orientation is an inherent, immutable, and unchangeable attribute of a person's being and personality. It is moreover, benign in that it affects no one else beside the individual, let alone imposing any harm on anyone if acted upon. A belief/ideology is learned, malleable and not an inherent, immutable part of one's self/personality in any sense. It, moreover, has great potential to inflict harm on people if acted upon, or if even expressed.

There is thus no acceptable reason to discriminate against someone based on the former in any case, while it is entirely justifiable to discriminate against the former in certain cases.
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All you did was start that argument.
 
I think dutch is a dumbass about this, but I also don't understand why the gay couple don't just take their business elsewhere
 
I guess sometimes people would just rather be right and justified than happy.

The gay couple would probably save allot of time and stress and be happier just going to one of the thousands of other bakeries that will make them a cake
 
fishonjazz said:
I think dutch is a dumbass about this, but I also don't understand why the gay couple don't just take their business elsewhere
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Perhaps it's a matter of principle. For example, blacks in the south could just have used the facilities designated for them, but there was a bigger principle at stake: equal access.

Social change doesn't occur if people suffering from discrimination always just take the easier course.

I dare say that if you were the victim of systemic discrimination, you might reach a point where you make a stand, even though you could have taken the easier course and 'been happy rather right."
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Perhaps it's a matter of principle. For example, blacks in the south could just have used the facilities designated for them, but there was a bigger principle at stake: equal access.

Social change doesn't occur if people suffering from discrimination always just take the easier course.
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I agree it's a matter of principle.
I still think that the couple would be better off just going elswhere.
It's not the same as segregation. Segregation was by far the majority.

The percentage of bakeries that won't sell a cake to a gay couple is probably like 1%.
I'm certain that almost every other bakery would have sold them a cake.... In fact I would not be a bit surprised if the couple sought out a location that wouldn't sell to them simply for the publicity, drama, and attention.

Fwiw I also think the bakery owner is dumb for not serving to them and he would just be better off if he made them a damn cake rather than the stress, time, and money it will end up costing him...... But he has his priciples that he believes he needs to stand up for too.
 
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I'd respond to these places thru social media sites like FB and yelp. Let the local community know who they are.

If I knew of a local place that refused to sell something/service to someone because of age/race/religion/orientation...then I'd stop shopping their as well. Hit them where it hurts, their clientele.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Just to pre-empt the inevitable argument; sexual orientation and personal belief/ideology are two entirely distinct things. Sexual orientation is an inherent, immutable, and unchangeable attribute of a person's being and personality. It is moreover, benign in that it affects no one else beside the individual, let alone imposing any harm on anyone if acted upon. A belief/ideology is learned, malleable and not an inherent, immutable part of one's self/personality in any sense. It, moreover, has great potential to inflict harm on people if acted upon, or if even expressed.

There is thus no acceptable reason to discriminate against someone based on the former in any case, while it is entirely justifiable to discriminate against the former in certain cases.
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to me my religion is an inherent, immutable, and unchangeable attribute of a person's being and personality.
so ur wrong. and lot of jews(not the fake liberal hollywood jews) think this way
 
fishonjazz said:
I agree it's a matter of principle.
I still think that the couple would be better off just going elswhere.
It's not the same as segregation. Segregation was by far the majority.

The percentage of bakeries that won't sell a cake to a gay couple is probably like 1%.
I'm certain that almost every other bakery would have sold them a cake.... In fact I would not be a bit surprised if the couple sought out a location that wouldn't sell to them simply for the publicity, drama, and attention.

Fwiw I also think the bakery owner is dumb for not serving to them and he would just be better off if he made them a damn cake rather than the stress, time, and money it will end up costing him...... But he has his priciples that he believes he needs to stand up for too.
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Yes, they might have been better off just going elsewhere.

Unless one has been the victim of systemic discrimination and/or the object of vocal and aggressive fear/hate by large segments of the society, it's hard to fully empathize and dictate how they should act when faced with yet more discrimination and hate.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Perhaps it's a matter of principle. For example, blacks in the south could just have used the facilities designated for them, but there was a bigger principle at stake: equal access.

Social change doesn't occur if people suffering from discrimination always just take the easier course.

I dare say that if you were the victim of systemic discrimination, you might reach a point where you make a stand, even though you could have taken the easier course and 'been happy rather right."
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u cant compare this to the blacks they where denied access to a service.
her it is a service not being offered.

its like going to a car dealership and demanding a pink car when he for whatever reason does not sell a pink car. he instead offers u a yellow car.

don't u see the difference?
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Yes, they might have been better off just going elsewhere.

Unless one has been the victim of systemic discrimination and/or the object of vocal and aggressive fear/hate by large segments of the society, it's hard to fully empathize and dictate how they should act when faced with yet more discrimination and hate.
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True. Good point.
I have never been in their shoes
 
DutchJazzer said:
to me my religion is an inherent, immutable, and unchangeable attribute of a person's being and personality.
so ur wrong. and lot of jews(not the fake liberal hollywood jews) think this way
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So you were born with an inbred or instinctual religious belief system?

You, sir, are an amazing, rare specimen indeed.
 
DutchJazzer said:
u cant compare this to the blacks they where denied access to a service.
her it is a service not being offered.

its like going to a car dealership and demanding a pink car when he for whatever reason does not sell a pink car. he instead offers u a yellow car.

don't u see the difference?
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No I don't. Your example, to put it succinctly, sucks.
 
DutchJazzer said:
to me my religion is an inherent, immutable, and unchangeable attribute of a person's being and personality.
so ur wrong. and lot of jews(not the fake liberal hollywood jews) think this way
Click to expand...
Most people don't think this way though.
I grew up as a Mormon. I live my current adult life agnostic.

People change religions all the time.
Mormons send people called missionaries to convert people to the Mormon religion and are very successful doing so.

A missionary of a religion could come to my home and have a chance (however small it might be) at converting me to their religion.

A gay dude could come to my house and try to convert me to gayness and would have zero chance.

There is a difference to most people. You are a weird dude that probably can't see the difference but it does exist
 
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