Start Dante for Rubio

[MVP]

Disagree. When Exum plays with the starters our team defense is elite.

Disagree, that sample size is way too small. Most of the times Exum was pulled quickly by Quinn was for missed defensive assignments, bad rotations, ineffective close outs, dying on screens an other fundamental mistakes. His understanding of team defense is rudimental at best.

 

[MVP]

Unfortunately for you the numbers are very similar. Maybe you should reconsider your faulty analysis.

What numbers? Individual numbers do not tell all the story. Sure, Exum may get some numbers playing vs backups and dominating the ball, but does it make our offense better? Besides few late games he used to constantly stagnate half court offence by overdribbling and not knowing how to run it. Most of our sets require ball movement and motion of all 5 players - concept Exum seems to be struggling to grasp. He is decent though in pick and rolls and iso plays. We just do run them enough. As far as our main half court offense execution Rubio is 10X player Exum is.

 

[Alfalfa]

Disagree, that sample size is way too small. Most of the times Exum was pulled quickly by Quinn was for missed defensive assignments, bad rotations, ineffective close outs, dying on screens an other fundamental mistakes. His understanding of team defense is rudimental at best.

And he has one move on offense. And Rubio has had, what? 10 games better than Dantes best game against the Knicks this season?

I am somewhat optimistic that Dante might develop into a good enough player for the starting PG spot in the next year or two. But now? That's ridiculous.

 

[tleikheen]

Disagree, that sample size is way too small. Most of the times Exum was pulled quickly by Quinn was for missed defensive assignments, bad rotations, ineffective close outs, dying on screens an other fundamental mistakes. His understanding of team defense is rudimental at best.

Wow Jazz are sure making a mistake putting Exum to guard their best offensive player then

 

[Jazz]

Disagree, that sample size is way too small. Most of the times Exum was pulled quickly by Quinn was for missed defensive assignments, bad rotations, ineffective close outs, dying on screens an other fundamental mistakes. His understanding of team defense is rudimental at best.

You have no idea quin is the worst coach in the NBA in the way he has treated Dante. Disgusting. It's like quin would say to Dante stop sneezing. Dante sneezed your off

 

[MVP]

Wow Jazz are sure making a mistake putting Exum to guard their best offensive player then

It is not about individual defense all the time. But I do not expect you to understand it. You still believe Kanter is unstoppable in the paint.

 

[elan_prodigy]

Happy that Dante is doing well, but Rubio is better in almost every way.

Except... Defending, throwing lobs, rebounding, penetrating on offense, getting our bigs involved, getting over screens, shooting funky floaters at the rim...

 

[elan_prodigy]

Individual defense ? Agree. Team defense? Rubio>>>Exum.

Is shutting down the point of attack not critical to team defense?

 

[elan_prodigy]

I don't know. I have eyes, and I see Exum lost on defense pretty often. He's great at staying in front of his man and bothering him with his length. Rubio is a much more well-rounded defender.

Im literally fixed on Exum when hes on the court and I rarely ever see this.

So.... #fakenews

 

[elan_prodigy]

I don't know. I have eyes, and I see Exum lost on defense pretty often. He's great at staying in front of his man and bothering him with his length. Rubio is a much more well-rounded defender.

Hes just more experienced. He also has no notion of being benched for a bad gamble.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

What numbers? Individual numbers do not tell all the story. Sure, Exum may get some numbers playing vs backups and dominating the ball, but does it make our offense better? Besides few late games he used to constantly stagnate half court offence by overdribbling and not knowing how to run it. Most of our sets require ball movement and motion of all 5 players - concept Exum seems to be struggling to grasp. He is decent though in pick and rolls and iso plays. We just do run them enough. As far as our main half court offense execution Rubio is 10X player Exum is.

Their season numbers are pretty similar. Rubio has the advantage of playing with better teammates and at his natural position. Exum has the advantage of playing against backups more often. You can make a case for either one of those things being more important, but I'd argue that Exum has been disadvantaged by how he's been used for most of this season. Even with all his struggles their season numbers are really close when accounting per possession. Andy Bailey posted the stats a couple games ago and Exum's have only improved since then. Dante doesn't over dribble at all. Any player waiting for the play to develop is going to dribble or reset to get to a PnR. The ball moves just fine when Dante plays PG. Another stupid Dante Exum myth. And I think that's funny because there are times when Rubio definitely dominates the ball and the offense becomes stagnant (not to mention Mitchell).

Rubio is experienced and is capable of running the offense well. But he gives up that advantage by being less of a threat and putting less pressure on the defense. Dante gets on top of the rim much more. Neither guy is a good shooter. Rubio turns it over more often. Like I said they play at a similar level even though they both have different strengths. The difference is that Dante can learn a lot of those nuances with more time and experience. Rubio will never have Dante's athleticism.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

You have no idea quin is the worst coach in the NBA in the way he has treated Dante. Disgusting. It's like quin would say to Dante stop sneezing. Dante sneezed your off

I think this is a bit hyperbolic. Quin just doesn't trust Dante for whatever reason and has treated him differently than other guys. I'm sure he likes Dante and wants him to succeed. Maybe he even believes in him in some abstract/future way. But he hasn't shown that confidence for most of his career. Quin is a very good coach. Hell, maybe even a great coach. Nobody is perfect.

 

[elan_prodigy]

What numbers? Individual numbers do not tell all the story. Sure, Exum may get some numbers playing vs backups and dominating the ball, but does it make our offense better? Besides few late games he used to constantly stagnate half court offence by overdribbling and not knowing how to run it. Most of our sets require ball movement and motion of all 5 players - concept Exum seems to be struggling to grasp. He is decent though in pick and rolls and iso plays. We just do run them enough. As far as our main half court offense execution Rubio is 10X player Exum is.

Dante rewards our bigs by setting them up at the other end and gives energy to the defensive side of their games. He also draws fouls. I remember when drawing fouls and getting opposition bigs in foul trouble was an offensive asset...

We run motion offense because we have no one who can create that initial "advantage". Dante doesnt need it... hes best when he operates at the top of the key with a rolling big and shooters, use picks/screens to find a hole, turns on the jets, collapses the defense for a kick out, drop off or finish. Rince and repeat.

 

[Jazz]

I think this is a bit hyperbolic. Quin just doesn't trust Dante for whatever reason and has treated him differently than other guys. I'm sure he likes Dante and wants him to succeed. Maybe he even believes in him in some abstract/future way. But he hasn't shown that confidence for most of his career. Quin is a very good coach. Hell, maybe even a great coach. Nobody is perfect.

The worst coach. To treat a player so poorly

 

[elan_prodigy]

Their season numbers are pretty similar. Rubio has the advantage of playing with better teammates and at his natural position. Exum has the advantage of playing against backups more often. You can make a case for either one of those things being more important, but I'd argue that Exum has been disadvantaged by how he's been used for most of this season. Even with all his struggles their season numbers are really close when accounting per possession. Andy Bailey posted the stats a couple games ago and Exum's have only improved since then. Dante doesn't over dribble at all. Any player waiting for the play to develop is going to dribble or reset to get to a PnR. The ball moves just fine when Dante plays PG. Another stupid Dante Exum myth. And I think that's funny because there are times when Rubio definitely dominates the ball and the offense becomes stagnant (not to mention Mitchell).

Rubio is experienced and is capable of running the offense well. But he gives up that advantage by being less of a threat and putting less pressure on the defense. Dante gets on top of the rim much more. Neither guy is a good shooter. Rubio turns it over more often. Like I said they play at a similar level even though they both have different strengths. The difference is that Dante can learn a lot of those nuances with more time and experience. Rubio will never have Dante's athleticism.

Ive never understood this complaint from JazzFanz. He posesses the ball sure but hes constantly probing, looking to collapse the defense to set someone up.
It may take a reset or 2 but it generally results in an open look.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Disagree, that sample size is way too small. Most of the times Exum was pulled quickly by Quinn was for missed defensive assignments, bad rotations, ineffective close outs, dying on screens an other fundamental mistakes. His understanding of team defense is rudimental at best.

Fair enough. Thats why I posted the 2 and 3 man rating with Exum, Gobert and Mitchell that has 200 minutes. That shows when Gobert and Exum play they are elite on defense and get even better with Mitchell combined.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Ive never understood this complaint from JazzFanz. He posesses the ball sure but hes constantly probing, looking to collapse the defense to set someone up.
It may take a reset or 2 but it generally results in an open look.

I've seen similar things posted by Jazz media like David Locke etc. I think most fans just regurgitate those opinions and don't really think for themselves. I remember Andy Larsen calling out a play where Dante had to reset a couple times because all the initial options (curls for Ingles and Korver) were covered well and then Dante had to pull it back and run a PnR. This is like a standard way a play can develop, but when it's dante for whatever reason people want to be justified in their positions over the last several years. Dante, like every player sometimes holds the ball too long or makes bad reads. The difference is that his mistakes get weirdly magnified by some people, and then they start seeing mistakes everywhere.

Also I agree with you that lots of times a Dante PnR is by far the best option the Jazz are going to have depending on the players on the floor. They should run those to death when appropriate.

 

[elan_prodigy]

I've seen similar things posted by Jazz media like David Locke etc. I think most fans just regurgitate those opinions and don't really think for themselves. I remember Andy Larsen calling out a play where Dante had to reset a couple times because all the initial options (curls for Ingles and Korver) were covered well and then Dante had to pull it back and run a PnR. This is like a standard way a play can develop, but when it's dante for whatever reason people want to be justified in their positions over the last several years. Dante, like every player sometimes holds the ball too long or makes bad reads. The difference is that his mistakes get weirdly magnified by some people, and then they start seeing mistakes everywhere.

Also I agree with you that lots of times a Dante PnR is by far the best option the Jazz are going to have depending on the players on the floor. They should run those to death when appropriate.

I think many have been hypnotised by, "The Blender"...

 

[tleikheen]

It is not about individual defense all the time. But I do not expect you to understand it. You still believe Kanter is unstoppable in the paint.

You sound like one of those red neck trumpsters who has to change the topic to Obama when you got nothing intelligent to say

 

[Sandman822]