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Summer League Thread

fishonjazz said:
Its not controversial. People are just being weird.

Im sure that soccer fans in brazil and spain often say that the US leagues dont produce great players in their leagues. And they would be correct.
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Handlogten's Heros said:
But that's clearly not the argument (maybe its Dean's I guess). Its that they didn't produce in that league. Whether that extends to every league then extend it out if you want. No one is saying Wemby is a bust cuz he's French. He produced in a pro league. Guys that don't produce in pro leagues and get drafted based on unlazy eye test analysis rather than historical results... have typically disappointed. Its okay to point that out.
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You xenophobic ****s! How dare you!
 
fishonjazz said:
Its not controversial. People are just being weird.

Im sure that soccer fans in brazil and spain often say that the US leagues dont produce great players in their leagues. And they would be correct.
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Brother no one is saying France produces talent on the level of America. We are saying that talented French players arent worse because they played a year in a French League.

A lot of people are making some ridiculous false equivalencies because they cant admit they have no eye for international scouting.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Brother no one is saying France produces talent on the level of America. We are saying that talented French players arent worse because they played a year in a French League.

A lot of people are making some ridiculous false equivalencies because they cant admit they have no eye for international scouting.
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Or you read the first sentence of the argument and then assume you know the rest. Eye for international scouting... oh brother.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Yeah, not sure what’s funny about that. Compared to the hype Bilal got I am most definitely not his biggest fan at all.

If we drafted him I would have hyped him the **** up because I’m a homer. Sorry?
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You asked if we think you hate Bilal for the **** of it and the answer is clearly yes, you do.

If you decalre yourself someone's #1 hater it means we probably cant take your analysis seriously.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Or you read the first sentence of the argument and then assume you know the rest. Eye for international scouting... oh brother.
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I dont think I have an eye for it eitehr to be clear. International scouting is hard and it's why NBA teams hire teams completely devoted to it.
 
stitches said:
I think his argument is more along the lines of - them playing in a French pro league is viewed as an excuse for low production. As in... for example, they play against men, they are younger than the competition, they are not yet trusted by the coach as the youngsters of the team, etc. So we assume there is unrealized potential and skills that are there but not shown, simply because they are lower on the totem pole as the 18 year olds on a professional team.

To some degree I agree actually. I think it's overstated how young players are being protected in Europe. IMO this is a legitimate knock on Bilal - his inability to seize more of a role on offense. I think it shows what his coach believes his current ability is and what he believes will help his team win. And huge majority of players who have come to the NBA from Europe and actually succeeded offensively, have actually shown stuff in Europe. I was thinking about French players who have actually succeeded in the NBA before the current draught.
Batum was scoring 11-12pts per game with 4ast and 4rbs as an 18 year old in France. Tony Parker averaged 15pts as a 19 year old in France. Evan Fournier averaged 14 a game as a 19 year old in France... I guess Boris Diaw is the only one that had similar stats to Bilal and succeeded in the NBA...


Agreed.... I think the skills and the production that results from that skill is the real big factor here... not the fact that they are French or come from the French league...
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I think that's fair, I would just say that's a general rule more than a French specific thing though. Like Dragan Bender falls into, for example. Killian Hayes, probably not though he was putting up numbers for Ulm and that was a big part of his case. Anyways, I think that's a legitimate question mark. It's fair to question Bilal on the basis of his low production/his rawness. I don't think saying he's overrated because he's French makes much sense and it's such a poor argument when there are much more obvious concerns.

Handlogten's Heros said:
But that's clearly not the argument (maybe its Dean's I guess). Its that they didn't produce in that league. Whether that extends to every league then extend it out if you want. No one is saying Wemby is a bust cuz he's French. He produced in a pro league. Guys that don't produce in pro leagues and get drafted based on unlazy eye test analysis rather than historical results... have typically disappointed. Its okay to point that out.
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Being French/Playing in the French league, is not a real knock on Bilal. That was the point of contention. If your argument is production-centric, I do not disagree. In fact, I've been saying that is the real argument against Bilal. What I disagree with is specifically knocking him because he's French, whatever is meant by that. I feel like it's really digging to try to force some connection to Bilal-Hayes, for example, when Bilal is raw as hell. The weirdness in this whole "French = Overrated" thing is that you don't have to dig deep to find question marks about Bilal.
 
Elizah Huge said:
So Dean is xenophobic towards French guys only? This is really the dumbest conversation I’ll have in awhile until Cy says something dumb again.

If players from a certain college busted over and over again for a whole decade wouldn’t we be a little cautious when talking about a prospect from that college?
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Everyone’s a racist now, didn’t ya know?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I mean the reports were that the Jazz were trying hard to move up in the draft.
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Evidently those reports were bunk. I think the price was 9 and 16 and they said "no." I feel like they has 5-10 or so on a similar tier and had gamed it out far enough to think George would fall to them. They were very very pleased with themselves about George even before he blew up at summer league.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Cy can’t even evaluate players on his own favorite team but thinks we should trust him on international scouting. Funniest **** I’ll hear all week.
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Brother you have slobbered on my nuts about how good I am at this ****. Just because I dont respect your xenpobic takes now you want to square up on some dumb **** lmfao.


And I must be alright cuz Danny agreed with me on this one:

Sign Simone Fontecchio

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Simone-Fontecchio/Summary/27886#International Since free agency looks like it will be a bust (outside of Conley), let's play the Euro Lottery again. This dude can play. He has legit Euroleague stats and good size.
jazzfanz.com jazzfanz.com
 
International scouting really isn’t that hard. If they put up elite stats at a really young age chances are they will be really good. If they don’t chances are they are going to bust.
 
Elizah Huge said:
That’s Cy’s thing he grips on to dear life for as a last resort when he loses arguments which seems to be a daily occurrence now.
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brother xenophobia and racism are two different things and I have not called anyone racist (other than DeanonDraft) in this thread so please stop crying.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Brother you have slobbered on my nuts about how good I am at this ****. Just because I dont respect your xenpobic takes now you want to square up on some dumb **** lmfao.


And I must be alright cuz Danny agreed with me on this one:

Sign Simone Fontecchio

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Simone-Fontecchio/Summary/27886#International Since free agency looks like it will be a bust (outside of Conley), let's play the Euro Lottery again. This dude can play. He has legit Euroleague stats and good size.
jazzfanz.com jazzfanz.com
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Uhh… that’s a weird victory lap to take when Tech was less than stellar this year. Just because the FO agrees with your take doesn’t automatically make it right. Once again see Dok and Tony "LaMarcus Aldridge 2.0" Bradley.
 
Elizah Huge said:
International scouting really isn’t that hard. If they put up elite stats at a really young age chances are they will be really good. If they don’t chances are they are going to bust.
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International Scouting isnt hard, but a multiple time MVP got drafted 41st not even 10 years ago...

Ok bud.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
brother xenophobia and racism are two different things and I have not called anyone racist (other than DeanonDraft) in this thread so please stop crying.
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I have seen you call multiple people racist for comparing white players to white players and black players to black players lol.
 
Elizah Huge said:
International scouting really isn’t that hard. If they put up elite stats at a really young age chances are they will be really good. If they don’t chances are they are going to bust.
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What's your opinion of Aleksandar Vezenkov's chances with the Kings?
 
Elizah Huge said:
International scouting really isn’t that hard. If they put up elite stats at a really young age chances are they will be really good. If they don’t chances are they are going to bust.
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especially the former. it's not an exact science - one guy i'll never forget i missed on that put up elite production at a young age over seasons was ante zizic - but he's the exception. if really young guys produce against top level euro competition, bet on them. that's why nba GMs were a bunch of dumbasses for letting leonard miller fall so far.
 
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