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"Surprised if Teague Doesn't End Up in Utah"

Stifle Tower said:
It's still unclear whether the "retool" strategy of KOC Is worse than the "rebuild" of DL. Pretty much depends on Exum at this point, Jazz could have very easily retained DMC, Millsap and maybe Foye instead of DL making the trade for Beidrins, Rush and Jefferson. Certainly, Millsap would have returned for more money than what Atlanta gave him (2 yrs/$16M, IIRC). Jazz probably would have made the playoffs instead of getting the #5 pick. Who knows who they would have taken in the mid-teens instead of getting Exum. Also don't get the pick that became Hood (but KOC retains DMC so a wash). Also guarantee Jazz acquire a veteran PG instead of relying on Burke to lead them into the playoffs. Lot of ifs, but I think the Jazz are a playoff team in the 4-6 range with Millsap, Favors, Gobert, Hayward, DeMarre and a free agent PG.

If Exum becomes a star, then DL's rebuild is better. If not, Utah gave up Millsap and DMC to rebuild and "not skip steps." Right now, that's looking like foolishness, You can develop young players and STILL be a playoff team, Kawhi has become a star. So has Draymond Green. Hayward was integrated into a playoff-caliber team.

Lindsey's strategy was to puprposely give the team a ****ty bench and lose a lot (a GM "tank") in order to get higher draft picks, Worked for Portland in getting Lillard. But thus far, DL's gambit has netted Utah Exum and Lyles and Hood (with the trade). Not sure Exum and Lyles are going to be the next Durant and Westbrook, As many have pointed out, Jazz were never bad enough to do a complete tank and get two top-5 picks. And that, right there, might be the very definition of "skipping steps."
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For the record Portland didn't tank to get Lillard.. they traded Gerald Wallace for the Nets pick that turned into Lillard.
 
ONE LOVE said:
For the record Portland didn't tank to get Lillard.. they traded Gerald Wallace for the Nets pick that turned into Lillard.
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Yes, but that was part of their tank, They went from 48-34 he previous year and then used the same strategy DL did: namely, have decent starters, but decimate the bench to ensure losing. Actually worked in terms of getting them Leonard and McCollum (in addition to Lillard), but it alienated LMA. Is Utah doing the same? Our GM tank has netted Hood, Exum and Lyles, but Hayward hasn't sounded all that happy. And who knows what Favors' attitude is. Maybe a bit better because he seems to get along well with Gobert.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Yes, but that was part of their tank, They went from 48-34 he previous year and then used the same strategy DL did: namely, have decent starters, but decimate the bench to ensure losing. Actually worked in terms of getting them Leonard and McCollum (in addition to Lillard), but it alienated LMA. Is Utah doing the same? Our GM tank has netted Hood, Exum and Lyles, but Hayward hasn't sounded all that happy. And who knows what Favors' attitude is. Maybe a bit better because he seems to get along well with Gobert.
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If your going to credit Lilliard to Portlands tank than you need to credit Gobert to ours. But they need to start winning. Playoffs this season and better seed next season or Hayward is gone for sure.
 
Stoked said:
If your going to credit Lilliard to Portlands tank than you need to credit Gobert to ours. But they need to start winning. Playoffs this season and better seed next season or Hayward is gone for sure.
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How so? IINM, DL used Utah's pick and the one we got in the DWill trade to move up for Burke. Gobert was a prospect DL really liked so he bought the pick. Was completely independent of the tank. Very smart and very lucky move by Lindsey (and I have given him credit for getting Gobert). But imagine had ALL we gotten from those two lottery picks was Trey and we watched Giannis and Rudy go on to be stars and Schroeder turn into a very good PG. Phase 1 of the rebuild would have failed miserably. That's why it is VERY risky to rely on picks only. Minnesota looks to be in solid shape with KAT and Wiggins. Philly on the other hand has been a failure and the league has intervened. Milwaukee's rebuild is too early to judge, but they supplemented their two lottery picks with a big free agent signing (Monroe) and their best player was drafted in the 2nd round, Orlando sure has a bunch of high picks on their roster, Will they develop and come together?

But all this "not skipping steps" is complete nonsensical garbage spewed by Lindsey. He already came in a couple of steps ahead by having Favors, Hayward and Burks on the roster. That's basically 3/5's of a starting roster and he's kept all 3. He hasn't torn down the roster, lost 70 games and tried to get a franchise player with a top-3 pick. SA had a ton of injuries that resulted in Duncan, Since then they've skipped steps by making smart picks, acquiring solid players and making key trades. GS sucked until Lacob took over. But they skipped steps by trading Ellis and making other good trades and acquisitions.
 
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By making trades to land that pick. They did so in an effort to improve their team. It was not based off their record at all. Same damn thing as what Portland did.
 
The truth is, Utah has done half as good of job as they could have, had they went about things right. You can sit and argue they did good, because look at who we got, but the fact is we, could have more.

If the Jazz trade Millsap and Al before they walk, we most likely extract at least a couple more 1st rounders at the bare minimum. Then in the process, we get better picks in the lottery because we would have been a worse team.

The Jazz straight screwed up those few years. Now we are looking around thinking maybe we could use just a little more. Just like anyone with brain could see was coming.

If you are gonna tank, do it ****ing right. none of this one foot in, and one foot out. That's stupid as ****.

So let's stop acting like the Jazz did a terrific job building what we have. They didn't maximize it's potential.
 
Hack said:
If the Jazz trade Millsap and Al before they walk, we most likely extract at least a couple more 1st rounders at the bare minimum. Then in the process, we get better picks in the lottery because we would have been a worse team.

The Jazz straight screwed up those few years.
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I think pretty much everyone agrees with this....
Except Franklin. Marvin williams, raja, richard Jefferson, and coach corbin? Those were the glory years for Franklin
 
Hack said:
If you are gonna tank, do it ****ing right. none of this one foot in, and one foot out. That's stupid as ****.

So let's stop acting like the Jazz did a terrific job building what we have. They didn't maximize it's potential.
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Normally don't agree much with Hack, but he's right. Jazz skipped some important steps in the rebuild, Namely, some that COULD have landed them better/more picks and perhaps that superstar Utah lacks.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Normally don't agree much with Hack, but he's right. Jazz skipped some important steps in the rebuild, Namely, some that COULD have landed them better/more picks and perhaps that superstar Utah lacks.
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Since you're clearly a supporter of KOC, what did you think about how he handled the 2012 draft?


The Jazz gets the GSW pick had GSW finished 7th or lower. GSW tanked heavily that year and eventually kept the pick. Had the Jazz NOT won their last game against POR they would have kept the pick IIRC.


Could KOC have told Ty to rest some players that game? GSW rested Curry and Bogut the whole season that year why can't we? Had the Jazz retained the 7th pick pick in that draft they could have potentially traded up to 6th and nabbed Damian Lillard.


If the Jazz had skipped any steps following the DWILL trade that was the step that they'd skipped IMO.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
U guys sound like a bunch of sad sacks. We have one of the more impressive young cores in the league. Deal with it!!
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DL ain't perfect... I for one was not happy with the zero FA additions this off season but he's done reasonably well. Everyone argues about who we should have taken instead of Burke but hindsight is 20/20. Also I'm not sure we could have gotten additional 1st round picks for millsap and Jefferson the year they expired. Pauls value has increased the last few years... He signed like a 2 year 20M deal that offseason which was a super steal for Atlanta.
 
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