Tank move: Andrew Bynum

[One Brow]

I'm saying that we're approaching receiving the #1 pick as if it's as doomed as picking heads on a flip when the previous ten flips have been heads, as if past events somehow dictate future events.

Well, they get Burks. If you've been paying attention to any of the Burks talk around here... plus, Williams, from what I can tell, is a capable veteran, who could play within their system and team concept, reinforcing the habits they want their players to have. Young players need that influence. They can't just trade for anyone and get that.

I'm just spouting ideas out here, really. I'm not married to the trade (though I'd make it in a heartbeat). As you can see this trade is mostly unpopular, but great for us. Some people have some interesting biases that prevent them from seeing this objectively. You couldn't possibly relate to that, could you?

Trying to accurately determine the worth of the pick =/= "doomed".

Again, if we value the pick more highly than Burks/Williams, why wouldn't Cleveland? If you see the trade as so lopsided that you would do it in a heartbeat, why does Cleveland do it?

I have plenty of biases, and no illusion otherwise. I can't see that this trade is great for us, nor does it seem unpopular. If I were to guess at the result, we'd be getting Bynum and the right to swap pick 21 with pick 16 in exchange for Burks and Williams, on the off chance that Cleveland still falls into the lottery. According to the people who seem to favor this trade, this trade works for us if we get another lottery pick, in which case Cleveland would be foolish to make the trade.

 

[Stoked]

Trying to accurately determine the worth of the pick =/= "doomed".

Again, if we value the pick more highly than Burks/Williams, why wouldn't Cleveland? If you see the trade as so lopsided that you would do it in a heartbeat, why does Cleveland do it?

I have plenty of biases, and no illusion otherwise. I can't see that this trade is great for us, nor does it seem unpopular. If I were to guess at the result, we'd be getting Bynum and the right to swap pick 21 with pick 16 in exchange for Burks and Williams, on the off chance that Cleveland still falls into the lottery. According to the people who seem to favor this trade, this trade works for us if we get another lottery pick, in which case Cleveland would be foolish to make the trade.

Cleveland may value the pick less if they are in a win now mod.

 

[One Brow]

Cleveland may value the pick less if they are in a win now mod.

I agree. However, in a "win now mode", they make the playoffs in the East when we give them Burks and Williams, don't you think? That's what I meant about swapping 21 for 16.

 

[Stoked]

I agree. However, in a "win now mode", they make the playoffs in the East when we give them Burks and Williams, don't you think? That's what I meant about swapping 21 for 16.

I am not arguing for the trade at all. I do not want Bynum any where near this team. I was just giving a reason that the Cavs may value their pick less than Utah does.

 

[JimLes]

Good plan you came up with btw

Grandpa said it all. It's really simple. Throw the players we currently have out on the floor, see how they do. Try to develop the youth. We're obviously pretty bad, so it's not like we're suddenly going to surge up the rankings. Play hard, work hard, draft the best player available with whatever pick we get. And hell, try to actually enjoy watching our favourite(and only) team play.

 

[fishonjazz]

Grandpa said it all. It's really simple. Throw the players we currently have out on the floor, see how they do. Try to develop the youth. We're obviously pretty bad, so it's not like we're suddenly going to surge up the rankings. Play hard, work hard, draft the best player available with whatever pick we get. And hell, try to actually enjoy watching our favourite(and only) team play.

I think I have seen this plan before.... still waiting for those championships to show up.

 

[fishonjazz]

Oh and btw I am enjoying this season just fine..... been to a few games even.
Love seeing burks come around and favors earning his contract and holy **** trey burke.
Plus I'm having fun rooting for other tankers to win (don't think I have scoreboard watched this much ever before).

See I can complain about watching our chances for a top 5 pick decrease due to us winning more AND still enjoy the games/season.

I'm just a multitasker I guess

 

[JimLes]

I think I have seen this plan before.... still waiting for those championships to show up.

Who the **** is talking about championships here? Why are people so fixated on this championship or bust idea? 8 teams have won the title in the last 30 years, but somehow the small market Utah's realistic goal should be a championship?

 

[fishonjazz]

Who the **** is talking about championships here?

Pretty much everyone who supports the tank. (Probably 80 percent of this message board that you frequent)

 

[fishonjazz]

Who the **** is talking about championships here? Why are people so fixated on this championship or bust idea? 8 teams have won the title in the last 30 years, but somehow the small market Utah's realistic goal should be a championship?

Can I get a plan from granpa or jim les for the jazz being contenders?

See my post when I asked what your plan is to become a contender?

You should have answered: I don't have a plan to become a contender and don't care if we become contenders..... I fine with being average

 

[NUMBERICA]

Who the **** is talking about championships here? Why are people so fixated on this championship or bust idea? 8 teams have won the title in the last 30 years, but somehow the small market Utah's realistic goal should be a championship?

Totally, we should just all be content to be BYU fans.

 

[Stoked]

Who the **** is talking about championships here? Why are people so fixated on this championship or bust idea? 8 teams have won the title in the last 30 years, but somehow the small market Utah's realistic goal should be a championship?

As a professional team it should be their obligation to put a competitive product on the court. Even if they don't win one that is fine. As long as they are busting their butts to try and win one.

If you want to root for intentional medocrity be my guest. Down here we reach for the stars. When we fall short we pick our selves up, dust ourselves off and get back in the saddle. (rep for the poster who gets the reference of that last line).

 

[gregbroncs]

Who the **** is talking about championships here? Why are people so fixated on this championship or bust idea? 8 teams have won the title in the last 30 years, but somehow the small market Utah's realistic goal should be a championship?

If they are not trying for a championship, then why the **** should anybody watch them? If they came out and admitted that winning a championship is a secondary goal and not their main goal I would cease to be a fan immediately.

 

[Stoked]

If they are not trying for a championship, then why the **** should anybody watch them? If they came out and admitted that winning a championship is a secondary goal and not their main goal I would cease to be a fan immediately.

It sounds as if he is promoting a belief that striving for mediocrity should be acceptable. I reject that in all subjects and discussions. You should strivve for greatness. If you end up mediocre then fine but not intentionally. Just an insane belief.

 

[gregbroncs]

It sounds as if he is promoting a belief that striving for mediocrity should be acceptable. I reject that in all subjects and discussions. You should strivve for greatness. If you end up mediocre then fine but not intentionally. Just an insane belief.

Pretty much. I don't ask for championships. I hope for them. But if the goal is not to win it all then I lose all respect and ability to be a fan of that franchise.

 

[Grandpa Jazz]

I am not arguing for the trade at all. I do not want Bynum any where near this team. I was just giving a reason that the Cavs may value their pick less than Utah does.

LA/Cleveland discussion reports aside. I believe those reports are mostly just journalistic stabs in the dark. Seems logical to me that a guy with as many years in the league as Bynum who has disappointed where ever he has been and now says he really doesn't like basketball much, is pretty much a cooked Goose. With Bynum you see the ability and wonder why he can't sustain it and then you hear this comment and it explains everything. Reminds me of Willy Wise (Utah Stars) who was a great talent similar to Adrian Dantley perhaps who just decided at a young age that he would really rather be a truck driver and just quit and actually drove trucks for a living. But after quitting and saying that, nobody went after him and tried to talk him back, nor will they talk to Bynum. You need to have the motivation to play in the NBA. I assume the reports quote Bynum accurately.

 

[infection]

I just read an inspiring article about Bynum:

https://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/12/28/cavs-suspend-bynum-indefinitely/



When asked about his suspension, he apparently told Yahoo sports that he never wants to play basketball again and never liked it in the first place.

I don't know all the contract stuff because he's got a weird contract, but the gist of it would be:

Marvin Williams
Burks
2nd rounder

for

Bynum
Right to swap picks (in the event we swap, they get the GSW pick [we reserve right to refuse swap])

This helps our tank but can legitimately be sold as a taking a chance rather than a tank move. We destabilize chemistry for a bit, get Marvin away from the brake pedal on the tank and most of all remove the Cavs as a tank threat.

Willing to include other assets.

This would have been a badass trade.

 

[Stifle Tower]

This would have been a badass trade.

It would have been top-3 protected. That's just standard.