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The Church of Alec Burks

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Which is why it's a smart coaching decision to not start your five best offensive players if it means that your bench has nothing to work with.

You do know that a coach does not have to have all starters come out at the same time, so you could leave some of your scoring starters in the game with your non scoring bench right?
 
Look fish. There are tens-- no, probably hundreds, of coaches who preach that it really doesn't ****ing matter who starts games; it matters who finishes them.

If your bench lacks offensive firepower (which ours does), you cannot start your 5 best offensive players. Portland tried that last year, and failed miserably. This year their bench has been tremendously improved, and their starters are still logging huge amounts of minutes in order for them to dip into bench-time.

Cannot believe the amount of bitching going on about this. I think I'm gonna stop participating in these "ZOMG BURKS NEEDZ 2 START" conversations altogether. Damn.
 
You do know that a coach does not have to have all starters come out at the same time, so you could leave some of your scoring starters in the game with your non scoring bench right?

and play them for 12 minutes straight? Another poor coaching decision, if it is avoidable. Players only ever log huge minutes if it is absolutely necessary.
 
and play them for 12 minutes straight? Another poor coaching decision, if it is avoidable. Players only ever log huge minutes if it is absolutely necessary.

I see corbin mixing the bench with the starters all the time.

I asked you this before but you never answered. (maybe didn't see it)
Would you complain if garrett started at point guard and burke was the backup so he could provide the bench with scoring and leadership?
 
Look fish. There are tens-- no, probably hundreds, of coaches who preach that it really doesn't ****ing matter who starts games; it matters who finishes them.

If your bench lacks offensive firepower (which ours does), you cannot start your 5 best offensive players. Portland tried that last year, and failed miserably. This year their bench has been tremendously improved, and their starters are still logging huge amounts of minutes in order for them to dip into bench-time.

Cannot believe the amount of bitching going on about this. I think I'm gonna stop participating in these "ZOMG BURKS NEEDZ 2 START" conversations altogether. Damn.

I have to agree but actually you want that to happen this year. You wanna see the core group compete and develop down the stretch and the bench guys to lose the games. And next year I wouldn't have any problems with Alec and Enes of the bench if we have better players. Than you would not just have a solid bench but a great one because we saw them compiting against other starters. That should be the goal in my opinon.
 
it really doesn't ****ing matter who starts games; it matters who finishes them.

I have seen quite a few games that burks didn't finish.......... yet Hayward, favors, and trey finish pretty much all of them, so maybe being a starter gives a player a better chance to finish as well.

Btw im sorry that you are having a hard time discussing this with me. I think it is a valad argument (burks starting) but you apparently believe that under no circumstance (barring injury) should burks ever start.


I mean if burks started averaging 30 pts per game off the bench (I know its unrealistic but just humor me) then you would just say "he is playing so good from the bench so why change it"....... if burks starts sucking worse than ever then you can just say "see he isn't good enough to start".

What would have to happen for you to ever say that maybe burks should start? get rid of everyone on the team who can score so that the starting lineup would need some scoring? would that do it?
 
Interesting that when burks starts his minutes go up.
Who woulda thunk
 
I have to agree but actually you want that to happen this year. You wanna see the core group compete and develop down the stretch and the bench guys to lose the games. And next year I wouldn't have any problems with Alec and Enes of the bench if we have better players. Than you would not just have a solid bench but a great one because we saw them compiting against other starters. That should be the goal in my opinion.

I'm just talking about what should be done if we want to win games. That's precisely why the decisions that have been made, are being made.
I have seen quite a few games that burks didn't finish.......... yet Hayward, favors, and trey finish pretty much all of them, so maybe being a starter gives a player a better chance to finish as well.

Umm lol. There is no statistical backing behind this. Also, most 6th men finish with the starters. Haven't you ever see James Harden play (back when he was with OKC)? Or Manu? C'mon dude.

Btw im sorry that you are having a hard time discussing this with me. I think it is a valad argument (burks starting) but you apparently believe that under no circumstance (barring injury) should burks ever start.

Depends how our players develop. If we start Burke Burks Hayward Favors Kanter next season, that is a total of 4 above average offensive players (pending if Kanter pulls his head out of his ***) that need a good amount of touches. How would you divvy up the touches between those 5 players? Keep in mind that Burke will need the rock considerably, as he is the best passer, and the most capable of getting the others in their 'spots'.

This is where the problem starts. Burks is awesome, but he needs touches to be effective. He needs the ball in his hand-- he plays quite well off-the-wall (particularly with Burke) but his offensive game is demanding of touches. Plain and simple. So we can either leave him with the starters, and limit how many touches he gets; or we can limit how many touches Hayward gets (our best player), or Kanter, or Burke. Are you seeing the problem?


So it comes down to this: There are too many capable ball-handlers for them to share all of their minutes together, so it makes most sense to spread them out over the full 48 minutes, for maximum team effectiveness. You can wish for all of them to start, and Burks to get pulled at the 8-minute mark (only to be put in again later) but to me that seems retarded. Just bring him off the bench, and let him finish games. The reason I chose Burks, is because his game is best-suited for 6th man duties in comparison to Burke, or Hayward. I wouldn't bring Burke off the bench because he is a heady, collected point-guard that sets the tone for the team, and is much more capable of getting the others in their sports than Garrett is. No one EVER brings their best point-guard off the bench; but people OFTEN bring combo-guards off the bench as sixth men.


I mean if burks started averaging 30 pts per game off the bench (I know its unrealistic but just humor me) then you would just say "he is playing so good from the bench so why change it"....... if burks starts sucking worse than ever then you can just say "see he isn't good enough to start".

What would have to happen for you to ever say that maybe burks should start? get rid of everyone on the team who can score so that the starting lineup would need some scoring? would that do it?

4 things could happen:

1) He would need to show us that he can excel in a starting-unit that wouldn't give him as many touches with Hayward around 2)He would need to outplay Hayward on both ends of the court 3)RJeff would need to show us that he could contribute in scoring while coming off the bench as well 4)Our floor-spacing doesn't become a ****-show when Burks is on the floor.
 
This is where the problem starts. Burks is awesome, but he needs touches to be effective. He needs the ball in his hand-- he plays quite well off-the-wall (particularly with Burke) but his offensive game is demanding of touches. Plain and simple. So we can either leave him with the starters, and limit how many touches he gets; or we can limit how many touches Hayward gets (our best player), or Kanter, or Burke. Are you seeing the problem?
Good response all around..... and im ok with burks coming off the bench (somewhat) if he really did finish every game and got a significant more minutes than jefferson (jefferson averages more than burks)

Now for my question that you keep avoiding.

If garrett was starting intead of trey and playing more minutes than him and finishing lots of games while trey rode the pine...... how would you feel?

See where im coming from? Im a huge burks fan so it can get frustrating after years of crappier players getting the start over him
 
Also harden should still be a 6th man cause he was so good at it but he wanted to start.

Hope burks doesnt excel as a 6th man and then leave cause he wants to start and then blow up on another team.
 
Good response all around..... and im ok with burks coming off the bench (somewhat) if he really did finish every game and got a significant more minutes than jefferson (jefferson averages more than burks)

You do have a point here. I also wonder why Burks doesn't finish sometimes-- but maybe it just comes down to floor-spacing. Corbin might be more confident in Burke + Hayward penetrating, and leaving out RJeff on the perimeter-- or they don't trust Burks on defense (even though RJeff is awful himself). There's lots of factors that come into play, so you rally have to take time to consider all of the reasons as to why a player might not be playing at a given time.

Now for my question that you keep avoiding.

If garrett was starting intead of trey and playing more minutes than him and finishing lots of games while trey rode the pine...... how would you feel?

See where im coming from? Im a huge burks fan so it can get frustrating after years of crappier players getting the start over him


I answered it already in my previous post. It's common for offensively talented combo, or two-guards to come off the bench.

Conversely, I don't think I have EVER seen the team's best point-guard, playmaker, or passer come off the bench-- for very obvious reasons.

If Garrett was a better passer, turned the ball over less, and made the right play more often, then obviously you put him in.

I do agree about some of the players that have played ahead of Burks (particularly Josh ****ing Howard. WOW). However, Corbin just really values floor-spacing (which explains Foye's minutes) so unless TyCo revamps his entire offense, it'll probably be like this for a while.

Also harden should still be a 6th man cause he was so good at it but he wanted to start.

Hope burks doesnt excel as a 6th man and then leave cause he wants to start and then blow up on another team.

Harden wanted to be the star, and he wanted a fat contract. Burks isn't even close to 2012 Harden yet-- but i hope he doesn't leave us and blow up on another team as well.
 
If Garrett was a better passer, turned the ball over less, and made the right play more often, then obviously you put him in.

Still have not really answered.... i dont care what is common or not.

Lets say garret is a worse player than trey in almost every aspect of the game and yet still started over trey and played more than him..... for 3 years.

going off that hypathetical situation, would you be upset?
 
It sure is fun seeing Burks play like this. Funny seeing how bad Corbin ****ed,up,a jewel in the making by missing the playoffs last year. Hornacek wouldve made that team a hell of a lot better.
 
Conversely, I don't think I have EVER seen the team's best point-guard, playmaker, or passer come off the bench-- for very obvious reasons.



well.

I coonsider d will to be better than both milt palacio and keith mcleod
 
When have I ever defended either player playing over DWill?

You said you have never seen a teams best point guard and playmaker come off the bench

I was letting you know that i think deron williams is a better point guard and playmaker than palacio or mcleod since d will came off the bench behind them his rookie year.

So if burke was backing up garret and john lucas the 3rd this season, how would you feel about that?
 
You said you have never seen a teams best point guard and playmaker come off the bench

I was letting you know that i think deron williams is a better point guard and playmaker than palacio or mcleod since d will came off the bench behind them his rookie year.

Yes, his rookie year. It was unheard of at the time, and people thought that Sloan was doing it as a rite-of-passage at the time. It's unbelievably rare, and I bet you can't think of a single non-rookie instance.

So if burke was backing up garret and john lucas the 3rd this season, how would you feel about that?

I would be pissed, obviously. The best point guard should never be coming off the bench (unless he's a head case, of course).
 
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