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The more things change, the more they stay the same

It doe snot matter if he played C his whole career! He does not play like a center. He is a PF and damn good one. He is out of position and I dont care what dumb *** arguement you come up with to dispute otherwise.
 
BOX said:
It doe snot matter if he played C his whole career! He does not play like a center. He is a PF and damn good one. He is out of position and I dont care what dumb *** arguement you come up with to dispute otherwise.
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Serious? I'm picturing a 4 year old screaming hysterically while jumping up and down when I read your post.

Jefferson is 6'10". That is a decent height for a center.

Jefferson is 280 pounds. That is pretty big for a center.

He plays almost exclusively in the post on offense and defense.

What about him or his game is more power forward than center?


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SaltyDawg said:
Serious? I'm picturing a 4 year old screaming hysterically while jumping up and down when I read your post.

Jefferson is 6'10". That is a decent height for a center.

Jefferson is 280 pounds. That is pretty big for a center.

He plays almost exclusively in the post on offense and defense.

What about him or his game is more power forward than center?


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
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6'10" is small for a center, most of the playoff teams out west are starting at least one 7 footer nowadays. Weight is important, but Jefferson isn't exactly a muscular 280. He cannot hold his ground like a Dwight Howard can. If he could work some of the flab into muscle he might be passable. But I digress, the only other playoff team to start a 6'10 center is New Orleans and Okafor is generally considered a good defensive player where Al is not.

Lakers: Bynum 7'1 Gasol 7'0
Portland: Pryz 7'0 Aldridge 6'11
San Antonio Duncan 6'11
Mavs: Chandler 7'1 Dirk 7'0
Thunder: Kristic 7'0 Ibaka 6'10
Nuggets: Nene 6'11
Hornets: Okafor 6'10

If the Jazz had another 6'10 player to play at PF they might be alright, but Millsap and Jefferson cannot be played together. The situation is difficult, but I think Millsap must be traded and Jefferson moved to PF. The Jazz could get a very good SG for Millsap, at least Kevin Martin quality.
 
SaltyDawg said:
Serious? I'm picturing a 4 year old screaming hysterically while jumping up and down when I read your post.

Jefferson is 6'10". That is a decent height for a center.

Jefferson is 280 pounds. That is pretty big for a center.

He plays almost exclusively in the post on offense and defense.

What about him or his game is more power forward than center?


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...

I love how people throw numbers out there like they're in a vacuum. Is Jefferson 6'10"? Yes, does he play like he's 6'10"? No.

GVC and others have showed enough stats on this board that demonstrate how poorly we play with Jeff on the court compared to Millsap. It's not even close.
 
Jazz4ever said:
6'10" is small for a center, most of the playoff teams out west are starting at least one 7 footer nowadays. Weight is important, but Jefferson isn't exactly a muscular 280. He cannot hold his ground like a Dwight Howard can. If he could work some of the flab into muscle he might be passable. But I digress, the only other playoff team to start a 6'10 center is New Orleans and Okafor is generally considered a good defensive player where Al is not.

Lakers: Bynum 7'1 Gasol 7'0
Portland: Pryz 7'0 Aldridge 6'11
San Antonio Duncan 6'11
Mavs: Chandler 7'1 Dirk 7'0
Thunder: Kristic 7'0 Ibaka 6'10
Nuggets: Nene 6'11
Hornets: Okafor 6'10

If the Jazz had another 6'10 player to play at PF they might be alright, but Millsap and Jefferson cannot be played together. The situation is difficult, but I think Millsap must be traded and Jefferson moved to PF. The Jazz could get a very good SG for Millsap, at least Kevin Martin quality.
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So when you play basketball do you consider yourself undersized or playing out of position if the guy you are guarding is 1 inch taller (and 15 pounds lighter) than you?

That 1 inch would not even be a noticeable difference.


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KrazeeEyezKilla said:
I love how people throw numbers out there like they're in a vacuum. Is Jefferson 6'10"? Yes, does he play like he's 6'10"? No.

GVC and others have showed enough stats on this board that demonstrate how poorly we play with Jeff on the court compared to Millsap. It's not even close.
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I haven't been around. Please enlighten me. Why is a 6'10" 280 pound center with averages of 17, 9, and 2, worth less than a 6'8" 250 pound power forward who averages 17, 8, and 1?


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SaltyDawg said:
So I decided to check out the Jazz board and see what what's what. It's been a while...

I remember everyone on this board blasting Boozer relentlessly for being soft. Supposedly all we needed was a "shot blocking center" and the Jazz would be the greatest team in the history of basketball. Supposedly Boozer's soft defense was the only thing wrong with the Jazz defense. Supposedly the Jazz were a great rebounding team without Boozer and Boozer's numbers were padded by stealing rebounds from his team mates. Supposedly the Jazz could put any scrub at power forward and they would automatically look like an all world player due to the Jazz offense.

Well here we are. We have a center averaging 2 blocks per game. We have a team who gets killed on the boards every night. We have Millsap looking like a scrub at power forward more often than he looks like a starter- especially when it comes to rebounding. We have one of the worst defensive teams in the league (especially lately).

And what do I see all over this board? People blasting the Jazz offense (and Jefferson) because Jefferson actually posts up. People blasting Jefferson's defense.

I guess people need to be careful what they wish for. Or I guess another way to put it is people will always find something to complain about.

Serious topic here. I was talking with one of my friends and he brought up a good point. If the Jazz could do it all over again, do they let Portland have Millsap and then match Wes Matthews? Would the Jazz really be any worse right now starting AK at power forward, or Okur at power forward, or even Elson or Evans? They would clearly be better off starting Matthews at sg than Bell, I don't think anyone disagrees with that.
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I dont usually agree with you, but this is spot on. I was one who didnt think Sap would be the answer, BUT I then was convinced by his level of play towards the end last year. He IS NOT a starting PF in this league. The Sap lovers will defend him to the end, and I dont blame him totally for the Jazz faults. The guy isnt a top tier or even middle tier consistant PF. YES, I would take it back and let Sap go and keep Matthews...in a second.
 
SaltyDawg said:
I haven't been around. Please enlighten me. Why is a 6'10" 280 pound center with averages of 17, 9, and 2, worth less than a 6'8" 250 pound power forward who averages 17, 8, and 1?


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
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You really need to rely on more than box score stats, go ask any coach, it tells you half the game. But in a nutshell, here are the things Millsap does which makes him a better player than Jefferson:

takes charges
better help defense (rotating)
more effecient scorer (53.5 vs 47.8%)
never loses his man
runs the floor better
can run a pick and roll
better passer

What does Al do better might be the better question. The list is pretty short actually

occasionally commands a double team on the post
rarely turns the ball over

Now if Jefferson were moved to PF, he would always command a double team on the post, and that's a huge bonus. That is why I consider Millsap expendable if we can get a good SG in return.
 
SaltyDawg said:
I never said Brewer was an all star. I said Brewer was a mid level player. And to be fair, he is getting 4.7 mil this year. If he doesn't get hurt and miss the season, he is probably getting the mid level right now. He'll have his day.

On Millsap... He's averaging 16.7 and 7.7. But how often does he hit those numbers? It seems like he plays like a star 1 out of every 5 games, and plays like a scrub 4 out of 5 games.

Looking at Millsap's game log, he got double digit rebounds in 4 of the first 6 games. He has got double digit rebounds in only 6 of the 40 games since then.

I think we can all agree that the Utah Jazz need their starting power forward to get double digit rebounds more often than 6 out of 40 games. Especially when the Jazz are getting killed on the boards every night. It's no longer a slump at 40 games...

Incidentally, Chicago has the 4th best record in the NBA right now, and they're 3rd overall in rebounds per game, and 3rd overall in fewest points allowed- and this is with Noah out. I think it's safe to say Boozer wasn't the cause of all the Jazz problems and getting rid of him wasn't automatically the solution.
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Did ever occur to your Loozer loving @ss , that the coach in Chicago is know for his defense expertise. I always said Loozer could play defense, but he just chose not to. His current coach sits his @ss when he won't play defense. Yes we remember your love of LOOSER. Are you Sloanfeld?
 
Is there any way for you to turn off the commercial your phone slaps onto the end of each of your messages because AdBlock hasn't evolved to tackle this sort of **** yet and your HTC Evo was probably assembled by a 13 year old Chinese boy 14 hours into his shift and you condoning child slave labor really undermines your message in this thread, imo, thanks
 
Get Down said:
Is there any way for you to turn off the commercial your phone slaps onto the end of each of your messages because AdBlock hasn't evolved to tackle this sort of **** yet and your HTC Evo was probably assembled by a 13 year old Chinese boy 14 hours into his shift and you condoning child slave labor really undermines your message in this thread, imo, thanks
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oHH AND I BET YOUR MONITOR AND YOUR COMPUTER PARTS AND YOUR KEYBOARD AND YOUR MOUSE ARE ALL CERTIFIED DOMESTIC VEGAN AND WEHHH WEHHH WEHHH WEHHHH HHHHHHhhhhhhh
 
SaltyDawg said:
Serious? I'm picturing a 4 year old screaming hysterically while jumping up and down when I read your post.

Jefferson is 6'10". That is a decent height for a center.

Jefferson is 280 pounds. That is pretty big for a center.

He plays almost exclusively in the post on offense and defense.

What about him or his game is more power forward than center?


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...

Decent height for center = great height for PF

Pretty big for center = great size for PF
 
Get Down said:
Is there any way for you to turn off the commercial your phone slaps onto the end of each of your messages because AdBlock hasn't evolved to tackle this sort of **** yet and your HTC Evo was probably assembled by a 13 year old Chinese boy 14 hours into his shift and you condoning child slave labor really undermines your message in this thread, imo, thanks
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Shh, you might upset him.

I asked him that already and he gets really hostile whenever you imply that technology is not God and Master of the Universe.
 
Jazz4ever said:
You really need to rely on more than box score stats, go ask any coach, it tells you half the game. But in a nutshell, here are the things Millsap does which makes him a better player than Jefferson:

takes charges Fine
better help defense (rotating) No.
more effecient scorer (53.5 vs 47.8%)
never loses his man ********, watch closer
runs the floor better
can run a pick and roll Not really. All he does is pop for a jumper or get blocked
better passer not really.

What does Al do better might be the better question. The list is pretty short actually

occasionally commands a double team on the post
rarely turns the ball over

Now if Jefferson were moved to PF, he would always command a double team on the post, and that's a huge bonus. That is why I consider Millsap expendable if we can get a good SG in return.
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see bold
 
Get Down said:
Is there any way for you to turn off the commercial your phone slaps onto the end of each of your messages because AdBlock hasn't evolved to tackle this sort of **** yet and your HTC Evo was probably assembled by a 13 year old Chinese boy 14 hours into his shift and you condoning child slave labor really undermines your message in this thread, imo, thanks
Click to expand...

Wow. Grow up?
 
SaltyDawg said:
I haven't been around. Please enlighten me. Why is a 6'10" 280 pound center with averages of 17, 9, and 2, worth less than a 6'8" 250 pound power forward who averages 17, 8, and 1?


Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...

You're ignoring my original point. You're acting as if Jeff should have no problem playing center based on his height and weight alone. Except his height means **** if he doesn't play big. And he doesn't. Sorry but 8.9 rebounds and 47.8% from the floor for a 6'10" 4/5 tells me he doesn't play big. Look at what other stud bigs shoot from the floor. Look at other stud big's rebounding rates. Jeff's rebounding per 48 is good, or should I say bad, for 32nd in the league. There's five rookies ahead of him there for God's sake including awful Greg Monroe who's soft as hell.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
You're ignoring my original point. You're acting as if Jeff should have no problem playing center based on his height and weight alone. Except his height means **** if he doesn't play big. And he doesn't. Sorry but 8.9 rebounds and 47.8% from the floor for a 6'10" 4/5 tells me he doesn't play big. Look at what other stud bigs shoot from the floor. Look at other stud big's rebounding rates. Jeff's rebounding per 48 is good, or should I say bad, for 32nd in the league. There's five rookies ahead of him there for God's sake including awful Greg Monroe who's soft as hell.
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Per 48 is a near meaningless stat. Let me get 1 rebound in 11 seconds of game play and my per 48 is a whopping 261 rebounds per 48. I am not disagreeing with you about AJ. I am firmly in the camp that thinks he would function far better as a PF than a center. But the per 48 stat does over-inflate people that don't get the PT, when there is no way to prove that if they had the PT they would perform at that level.
 
Salty, the duo of Millsap and Jeff are undersized. I dont know how you can argue that. Just about every other center in elite teams are atleast 6-11 and in most cases 7 ft or above. If you are trying to guard guys who are taller and are atleast as strong as you on a nightly basis that is an uphill task.
 
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