If by that you mean that it is not, then yes.
The Night Sloan resigned...
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
If by that you mean that it is not, then yes.
Everything ok at home bro??
For the record, I have never said Deron was blameless. I tend to think that the truth in a dispute is somewhere in the middle. I also don't think Deron has forced a coach out, I think with Sloan he was just kind of done more or less and Deron was a reason for that, and that Prokhorov (sp?) is quick on the trigger.
I agree with most of what you're saying, except this line. Not only do I not agree with it (see rebuilding era - 2000-2005, when Larry didn't always do what's best for the team, including but not limited to Milt Palacio, Raul Lopez, lack of free agency movement, AK Max contract), but I find it reprehensible that you use Larry as the "dead super owner" and then say someone's actions are "what he'd have done" in an attempt to add weight to your own view.
That's just bad juju bro. I won't neg you for it, but you might wanna think that path through again.
If anything good comes from this thread, I hope it's closure. This is what happened. Yes, there was some controversy, yes Deron had a hand in it, but he's not a monster. He's just a superstar that wants to win more than anything. I'm sure Karl had his spats with Jerry too. Jerry had just enough energy to deal with it back then, now he didn't.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
gomretat
Well-Known Member
Anyone can use hindsight as a basis for not doing what was best for the organization. Add me the list of those that believe LHM always did what he thought was best long term for the Jazz and that Gail was simply doing the same thing. Not sure how that makes for bad juju, just the way it is.
mellow
Well-Known Member
I think the Doc Rivers depature is just the next progression in the NBA demise. The NBA owners, coaches, and players treat the fans like crap. They believe that they can do anything they want and the fans will still come. The arenas are not filling up, the revenue only expanded a little last season, and too many of the kids who grew up on Michael Jordan and Bird Vs Magic who are now in their prime earnings age did not stay with the NBA and are not coming back. The league is more about drama and theatre than it is about basketball and if there was anything else on TV the NBA would be screwed.
"including the franchise’s aversion to change and Sloan’s minimal game-tape breakdown sessions."
Say what you will about Deron, but I think he is a smart b-ball man and a guy who really wants to win. His criticisms above hit home. This franchise is more interested in loyalty and continuity, aversion to change, than they are about winning. So they went with the in-house guy, Ty Corbin, with no track record whatsoever as a HC.
The lack of game-tape breakdown points to a common complaint here, the lack of in-game strategy and tactics with Sloan and now Corbin. Sloan always took a simple minded approach to the game, and often got his butt handed to him by better strategists like Pops and PhilJ. Yet the Jazz still put him on a pedestal and stick with his chosen one.
Say what you will about Deron, but I think he is a smart b-ball man and a guy who really wants to win. His criticisms above hit home. This franchise is more interested in loyalty and continuity, aversion to change, than they are about winning. So they went with the in-house guy, Ty Corbin, with no track record whatsoever as a HC.
The lack of game-tape breakdown points to a common complaint here, the lack of in-game strategy and tactics with Sloan and now Corbin. Sloan always took a simple minded approach to the game, and often got his butt handed to him by better strategists like Pops and PhilJ. Yet the Jazz still put him on a pedestal and stick with his chosen one.
Mongoose
Well-Known Member
^This... Lucky for me, I love hockey! I've been surprised with some of the Jazz reactions to fans in the last few years. It seems they are becoming more and more defensive and trying to indirectly place blame on the fans, it's like the league has animosity towards fans... It's a disconnect like you have in poorly managed companies between management and workers, but with the NBA it's between management and customers, because the product is ****.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
Sloan and Phil Johnson ate dinner with the media as they always did before home games that night. Neither betrayed anything that there was trouble in paradise. Sloan did tell a Chicago beat writer that John Stockton only ran the wrong play once in his career. Deron I think ran the wrong play six times in the first half of the Chicago game. It's interesting that Johnson went over the side with Sloan. That to me shows loyalty because he was turning his back on a lot of money if he got the head coaching job.
The little things catch in my mind. Most of the time I don't even know why, and this is one of those situations. So I had to think about it for a second, and this is what I came up with.
In my mind, however shallow or deep that is, there's a line that's crossed when you say "Always did whats best" in place of "Always did what he thought was best". "Always best" implies it always worked out, and all was well, which further implies a degree of infallibility. Which is a lie, even if it's just an implied/inferred lie. In this situation, there was a lie told to bolster the view of one or more person(s), and because it was caught by even one person, they've now cheapened themselves, and the legacy of LHM, even if only just.
Do you see how I could view that as bad juju?
But was his loyalty misplaced? Who was writing his large paychecks all those years? I strongly disagreed with Johnson resigning. At a minimum, he should have stayed on as head assistant to help Ty out. Remember how understaffed Ty was early on for assistants? (of course, that showed how ill-prepared he was too, shoulda had a list of asst coaches in his wallet for years). Phil should have really taken over as interim HC and allowed the Jazz to have a thorough review of candidates.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
I think Phil not taking over shows how effed up the Jazz front office and management was, The best line I think I heard was on the Mike and Mike show on ESPN after the DWill trade and Sloans earlier resignation something to the effect that Jazz management used up all the toilet paper and then decided to take a dump.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, the old 'back in the halcyon days of yore' gambit.
I'm guessing that disputes between players and coaches have been going on since the advent of organized athletics. I think we'd all be shocked if we knew what was going on behind the scenes at all these teams (e.g., Doc Rivers and Rondo almost getting into fights). But then, we shouldn't be surprised; after all we are dealing with humans, many of whom have large egos and/or have strong personalities and any number of personality flaws.
While there's a temptation to lay the blame on D-Will's feet, let's remember that Sloan, while an icon, is a far from perfect individual or coach and surely has his flaws also. We're hearing all of this now from people who might fairly be called Sloan sympathizers.
I don't know what happened, but just because Sloan is an icon and D-Will now has a 'reputation,' I'm not willing to assume automatically that the blame lies disproportionately on one side or the other.
Hax0rs
Banned
I never said Sloan wasn't a grumpy old man who didn't know how to play a rookie. What I was saying was "The game used to be fun to watch, a team game. Now it's a bunch of bitchy divas looking to get a Sports Center highlight, and D-Will, is right there with the rest of those flavor clowns."
The game has changed, and that's why the product has suffered.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
I enjoy the NBA now as much or more as I ever had.
Yes, the game has changed. But change happens. Everywhere, all the time. I don't see the point lamenting the present and pining for the past.