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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

With the first contract I would almost always try and take the best extension offer as long as it was somewhere in a reasonable window. I think Johnson is a better player than JK but understand where the comp comes from and JK has been more available than Johnson. If they offered him anywhere in the realm of 4/100M I think I would have advised him to take it. The downside of having a catastrophic injury versus the upside of getting an additional 10-15M always seems like a bad risk assessment in my mind. If he gets hurt and end up on a minimum or some like 2/20M make good deal its just so catastrophic. Even if it was like 3/80M no options I would just find something that makes sense if I was JK. If they were lowballing like 4/60-70M then the "bet on yourself" seems to make a lot more sense.

Who know what was really out there of course. So I won't call anyone an idiot unless a player says "I was offered X and turned it down".

The thing about locking yourself into a long term deal is that it really cuts off a lot of earning potential. $25M a year ain’t that much more than MLE 4 years down the line. The sheer amount of money makes it so that I would never blame a player for taking it, but if they truly believe in themselves I can understand why betting on themselves can be seen as the more favorable option. In the past it seemed like almost every RFA benefited from waiting besides a few exceptions, but we’re in a second apron world now.

With JK, I probably would have been more on the conservative because the Warriors wouldn’t give him the role he thinks he deserves. But even then, I still think there’s an argument to be made that waiting it out is better. A shorter deal with Jalen’s Green structure would have been great for Kuminga, but the Warriors would never catch themselves giving such a player favored deal to him.

JK’s camp is really high on him (maybe a little too high), but they’ve been validated. The instant he got more opportunity he blossomed last season. Really, they should have worked on getting him traded if they weren’t going to ink a deal. Being in a 12 man rotation is horrible for betting on yourself.
 
The thing about locking yourself into a long term deal is that it really cuts off a lot of earning potential. $25M a year ain’t that much more than MLE 4 years down the line. The sheer amount of money makes it so that I would never blame a player for taking it, but if they truly believe in themselves I can understand why betting on themselves can be seen as the more favorable option. In the past it seemed like almost every RFA benefited from waiting besides a few exceptions, but we’re in a second apron world now.

With JK, I probably would have been more on the conservative because the Warriors wouldn’t give him the role he thinks he deserves. But even then, I still think there’s an argument to be made that waiting it out is better. A shorter deal with Jalen’s Green structure would have been great for Kuminga, but the Warriors would never catch themselves giving such a player favored deal to him.

JK’s camp is really high on him (maybe a little too high), but they’ve been validated. The instant he got more opportunity he blossomed last season. Really, they should have worked on getting him traded if they weren’t going to ink a deal. Being in a 12 man rotation is horrible for betting on yourself.
Right but the MLE being high doesn't matter if he tears his Achilles next game. Maybe its only a 5% risk that he experiences a catastrophic injury and he is young so still might make it up. I just think when you have generational wealth in front of you and you say "nah I'm going to risk generational wealth to get 25%-33% more generational wealth if I can stay healthy and improve my stock".

The evaluation for me is not $25m now vs. 15m per year for 4 years if things don't work out... its $100M+ guaranteed vs. minimum deal if things don't work out. His leg may turn to rubber like Tay Henny's did and when you game is predicated on athleticism and the jumper still has not shown improvement... that's just too risky for me.

If he had 30M ish on the table it seems like there is a workable deal in there... either add a player option or shorten the deal for less money. If he gets 35-40M next year then he wins the negotiation. As long as he's healthy he should get MLE+ type money... but life comes at you fast and the narrative can turn quickly.
 
Right but the MLE being high doesn't matter if he tears his Achilles next game. Maybe its only a 5% risk that he experiences a catastrophic injury and he is young so still might make it up. I just think when you have generational wealth in front of you and you say "nah I'm going to risk generational wealth to get 25%-33% more generational wealth if I can stay healthy and improve my stock".

The evaluation for me is not $25m now vs. 15m per year for 4 years if things don't work out... its $100M+ guaranteed vs. minimum deal if things don't work out. His leg may turn to rubber like Tay Henny's did and when you game is predicated on athleticism and the jumper still has not shown improvement... that's just too risky for me.

If he had 30M ish on the table it seems like there is a workable deal in there... either add a player option or shorten the deal for less money. If he gets 35-40M next year then he wins the negotiation. As long as he's healthy he should get MLE+ type money... but life comes at you fast and the narrative can turn quickly.

I don't think players/agents think about disaster potential as much as you do. 5% is a pretty crazy number btw, I don't think 5% of 22 year olds are experiencing catastrophic injuries. Right or wrong, I think what's on his mind is that he believes he's an future all star and young players that sniff all star potential are often instant max contracts. He's thinking about making $200M+ like some of his peers. And to be clear, I don't think he "deserves" that, but I can see why it would take a hell of a lot of money to make him give up that earning potential and also cave into the idea that he's not the player he thinks he is. BTW, the mid level being that high "does" matter. The point is that salaries are higher in the future which matters regardless of his situation at that time.

I do think it's both a respect and confidence/pride thing. It's not about winning the negotiation as much as it is that JK believes in himself as a player. Maybe it ends up bad for him, but I can see why a young player is thinking about his belief in his potential more than he's thinking about the chances that he has a catastrophic injury and ruins his career. Realistically, neither end of spectrum happens and he ends up somewhere similar to where he he'd be if he had signed the contract.
 
I don't think players/agents think about disaster potential as much as you do. 5% is a pretty crazy number btw, I don't think 5% of 22 year olds are experiencing catastrophic injuries. Right or wrong, I think what's on his mind is that he believes he's an future all star and young players that sniff all star potential are often instant max contracts. He's thinking about making $200M+ like some of his peers. And to be clear, I don't think he "deserves" that, but I can see why it would take a hell of a lot of money to make him give up that earning potential and also cave into the idea that he's not the player he thinks he is. BTW, the mid level being that high "does" matter. The point is that salaries are higher in the future which matters regardless of his situation at that time.

I do think it's both a respect and confidence/pride thing. It's not about winning the negotiation as much as it is that JK believes in himself as a player. Maybe it ends up bad for him, but I can see why a young player is thinking about his belief in his potential more than he's thinking about the chances that he has a catastrophic injury and ruins his career. Realistically, neither end of spectrum happens and he ends up somewhere similar to where he he'd be if he had signed the contract.
I guess I look at it for JK like this... the scenarios where he gets 5-10M more than 30M are just as likely or less likely than the scenarios where he gets 5M or so less than that. There is a catastrophic injury that maybe is less likely than 5% but its not a non-zero chance (achilles, leg rubber) say its 1%-2% and then there is a significant injury potential that leaves you with a 2/25M type deal. Back issues, certain foot breaks, ACL etc. that cast doubt on his availability next year so no one is excited about making a big long term offer.

Whether they are thinking about it or not I think they should think about it and consider it more than they do. Its their life but I feel pretty comfortable saying JK won't get more than 4/120M next year. I think its pretty bonkers to think someone gonna pay $200M when his trade market was not great this offseason... that should tell them something.
 
I guess I look at it for JK like this... the scenarios where he gets 5-10M more than 30M are just as likely or less likely than the scenarios where he gets 5M or so less than that. There is a catastrophic injury that maybe is less likely than 5% but its not a non-zero chance (achilles, leg rubber) say its 1%-2% and then there is a significant injury potential that leaves you with a 2/25M type deal. Back issues, certain foot breaks, ACL etc. that cast doubt on his availability next year so no one is excited about making a big long term offer.

Whether they are thinking about it or not I think they should think about it and consider it more than they do. Its their life but I feel pretty comfortable saying JK won't get more than 4/120M next year. I think its pretty bonkers to think someone gonna pay $200M when his trade market was not great this offseason... that should tell them something.

Very few 22 year olds are going to discount themselves (meaning who they think they are) because they are afraid of having a catastrophic injury that may or may not ruin their career. Maybe they should consider that more than they do, but chances are they're going to believe in themselves and the work they put in. Even if they don't end up winning the negotiation in the end, they will have at least given themselves a chance.

Again, I'm not saying it the smart move for him to decline contract we don't even know the details of, but I can see it from his perspective for sure.
 
Very few 22 year olds are going to discount themselves (meaning who they think they are) because they are afraid of having a catastrophic injury that may or may not ruin their career. Maybe they should consider that more than they do, but chances are they're going to believe in themselves and the work they put in. Even if they don't end up winning the negotiation in the end, they will have at least given themselves a chance.

Again, I'm not saying it the smart move for him to decline contract we don't even know the details of, but I can see it from his perspective for sure.
Understood. And I guess my point is I think they should… but we were all young and invincible at one time so I can see why they think that. I also understand why agents don’t always try and bring their clients back to reality.

His FA will be pretty interesting.
 
So... Philly got their guys back but still lost to a Grizzlies team that started Pippen, Bane, Wells, JJJ and Clarke.
 
Minnesota has Detroit's FRP this year, not sure of the protections. Anyone remember why that is? Twolves are probably going to add a lottery pick this year.
 
Minnesota has Detroit's FRP this year, not sure of the protections. Anyone remember why that is? Twolves are probably going to add a lottery pick this year.
Oh this is interesting. Fanspo for instance still has that pick listed for Knicks.

Its top 13 protected for this year (top 11 2026, top 9 2027, then 2RP) and NBA.com official transaction news do confirm that it was part of the KAT trade.
 
Oh this is interesting. Fanspo for instance still has that pick listed for Knicks.

Its top 13 protected for this year (top 11 2026, top 9 2027, then 2RP) and NBA.com official transaction news do confirm that it was part of the KAT trade.

Okay, so Detroit likely keeps it this year. That's good news.
 
That draft pick was originally protected and sent out in the 2020 draft when Pistons traded with Houston to get Isaiah Stewart at #16.

Then Houston packaged that pick plus the trash Washington FRP that the Knicks own and sent them to OKC to grab Sengun at that same spot #16.

Then OKC sent them both to Knicks in the 2022 draft for Ousmane Dieng, after which the Knicks sent that Detroit one to Minny in the KAT deal.
 
It's always been supremely easy for me to dislike the Thunder, but this current version is rapidly changing my mind. As a "defense-first guy", I think they're one of the most entertaining teams in the last decade. I hope they win the 'chip.
 
It's always been supremely easy for me to dislike the Thunder, but this current version is rapidly changing my mind. As a "defense-first guy", I think they're one of the most entertaining teams in the last decade. I hope they win the 'chip.

I hate OKC because I'm jealous. How do you follow up drafting Harden, KD, and Westbrook and then pivot and go get SGA, Jalen, and Chet. It just doesn't seem fair. That said, I love watching their point of attack defense. I end up watching them as much as any non Jazz team.
 
I hate OKC because I'm jealous. How do you follow up drafting Harden, KD, and Westbrook and then pivot and go get SGA, Jalen, and Chet. It just doesn't seem fair. That said, I love watching their point of attack defense. I end up watching them as much as any non Jazz team.
It's even worse than that. The fans in OKC inherited a team that already had KD and Westbrook in one of the messiest relocations in NBA history. They drafted Harden in the first offseason, iirc.
 
It's even worse than that. The fans in OKC inherited a team that already had KD and Westbrook in one of the messiest relocations in NBA history. They drafted Harden in the first offseason, iirc.
Well, they somehow messed it up the first time, so I'm hoping they figure out a way to mess it up again.
 
I hate OKC because I'm jealous. How do you follow up drafting Harden, KD, and Westbrook and then pivot and go get SGA, Jalen, and Chet. It just doesn't seem fair. That said, I love watching their point of attack defense. I end up watching them as much as any non Jazz team.
They are also a stolen team.
 
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