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The Official 2014/15 Tank Watch thread

Stoked said:
The tank was never on. We were just fooling ourselves.

The reason the tank is not, and has not been, on is that Snyder has no interest in Ls and knows how to coach. So we might have a bad record after the season but the Jazz are not tanking.

Any high lottery pick will rely on lotto luck and/or DL making trades.
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Fixed
 
I think when some of say "is the tank back on?" we're not referring to losing intentionally or not trying, We know that will NEVER happen under Snyder. Jazz are not going to win just 4 more games to match what they did last year after the break.

For me, it just means are we still thinking we may get a decent pick and where is it going to be? Had the Jazz been able to keep up with what they did to Portland and SA, they almost certainly would have dropped to #12. Now I think we're still in the #7-12 mix.

IMO, Denver and Orlando have joined Minnesota, New York, Philadelphia and LA Lakers as teams that will definitely not win more games than Utah. However, the next six teams are separated by just 3 games, with Utah sitting 1/2 game out of 7th, but only 2 1/2 behind Brooklyn for 12th.

Not sure who we'd target (I think Russell and Okafor are taken 1-2 and nobody trades out of those spots). However, if we finish at #7 or #8, we might be able to trade up for someone else. But that would be very difficult - if not impossible - if we have the #12 pick.
 
Stifle Tower said:
I think when some of say "is the tank back on?" we're not referring to losing intentionally or not trying, We know that will NEVER happen under Snyder. Jazz are not going to win just 4 more games to match what they did last year after the break.

For me, it just means are we still thinking we may get a decent pick and where is it going to be? Had the Jazz been able to keep up with what they did to Portland and SA, they almost certainly would have dropped to #12. Now I think we're still in the #7-12 mix.

IMO, Denver and Orlando have joined Minnesota, New York, Philadelphia and LA Lakers as teams that will definitely not win more games than Utah. However, the next six teams are separated by just 3 games, with Utah sitting 1/2 game out of 7th, but only 2 1/2 behind Brooklyn for 12th.
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To it means trying to lose and/or holding out players and what not to improve the draft pick. Snyder and DL have shown 0 interest in that and its dead in the water to me.

Only way Jazz get a goo pick (top 5 for this discussion) is thru lotto luck or DL trades. This team will win to many remaining games.
 
OK, so maybe you can remove "tank" from the title and substitute with "draft" instead. But we're also keeping an eye out on teams directly above/below Utah to see if we do have a chance at a better pick.

Utah didn't do anything at the deadline to make themselves IMMEDIATELY better. DL made the team worse offensively. I can't say giving 2/3's of Kanter's minutes to Booker and Evans is a positive - other than perhaps showing Booker can't be the 3rd big like Kanter was. But certainly increasing Gobert's minutes was/is. With two quick wins after the break, Utah put themselves ahead of Denver and Orlando, probably permanently. Orlando has floundered all season and Denver DID make themselves weaker.

I agree. A top-5 pick sans luck or trade is out of the question. But if somehow the Jazz can lose enough (through continued poor play among the guards), struggling at the FT line, etc., maybe Utah can finish at #8 or so. Then trading up a few spots - if they really like a particular player - would be easier.
 
Stifle Tower said:
OK, so maybe you can remove "tank" from the title and substitute with "draft" instead. But we're also keeping an eye out on teams directly above/below Utah to see if we do have a chance at a better pick.

Utah didn't do anything at the deadline to make themselves IMMEDIATELY better. DL made the team worse offensively. I can't say giving 2/3's of Kanter's minutes to Booker and Evans is a positive - other than perhaps showing Booker can't be the 3rd big like Kanter was. But certainly increasing Gobert's minutes was/is. With two quick wins after the break, Utah put themselves ahead of Denver and Orlando, probably permanently. Orlando has floundered all season and Denver DID make themselves weaker.

I agree. A top-5 pick sans luck or trade is out of the question. But if somehow the Jazz can lose enough (through continued poor play among the guards), struggling at the FT line, etc., maybe Utah can finish at #8 or so. Then trading up a few spots - if they really like a particular player - would be easier.
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So we disagree on the verbage. Fair enough.

Personally I will be very surprised if the Jazz are even top 10 entering the lotto.
 
Stoked said:
So we disagree on the verbage. Fair enough.

Personally I will be very surprised if the Jazz are even top 10 entering the lotto.
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Not really disagreeing. For Utah, it is NOW the draft watch thread at this point. I made this thread initially as a joke after some started to panic and spread doom and gloom. Actually, IIRC, it was in response to a thread about certain fans. And certainly, at 6-19, Utah was definitely in contention for a top-5 pick - had they continued to play at that pace.

Also agree with you on the top-10 prediction. I think there's still a very good chance Utah finishes in the 11-12 range, probably more likely than 7-10.
 
Stoked said:
The tank was never on. We were just fooling ourselves.

The reason the tank is not, and has not been, on is that Snyder has no interest in Ls. So we might have a bad record after the season but the Jazz are not tanking.

Any high lottery pick will rely on lotto luck and/or DL making trades.
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That sounds all fine and good, but Utah could have easily improved the team in the Enes trade as opposed to the route they went. Fans have all kinds of definitions when it comes to tanking, so it's it's kind of a pointless argument without a clear definition, but Utah is definitely developing their players, while at the same time maintaining draft position. They aren't trying to lose games, but they sure haven't gone all in either, or they could have improved the team at the deadline.
 
freakazoid said:
That sounds all fine and good, but Utah could have easily improved the team in the Enes trade as opposed to the route they went. Fans have all kinds of definitions when it comes to tanking, so it's it's kind of a pointless argument without a clear definition, but Utah is definitely developing their players, while at the same time maintaining draft position. They aren't trying to lose games, but they sure haven't gone all in either, or they could have improved the team at the deadline.
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Yup, that sly fox, Dennis Lindsey.
 
Stifle Tower said:
I think when some of say "is the tank back on?" we're not referring to losing intentionally or not trying
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I agree.
When I say we are tanking all I'm really saying is that we are not very good and we are going to lose alot of games.

Stoked said:
To it means trying to lose and/or holding out players and what not to improve the draft pick.
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No teams are doing this
 
fishonjazz said:
I agree.
When I say we are tanking all I'm really saying is that we are not very good and we are going to lose alot of games.



No teams are doing this
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6ers are doing it by ensuring they have no good players on the roster.
 
Stoked said:
6ers are doing it by ensuring they have no good players on the roster.
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Oh, in your post I quoted you said trying to lose and holding players out. You didn't mention making bad trades that make your team worse (to most people, that are not jazz fans, that is exactly what it looks like the jazz did in the enes kanter trade btw)
 
Also, I keep hearing people saying that a player like exum should normally be getting a bunch of dnp's right now and very low amount of minutes yet he is starting for the jazz.
Ian Clarke has been around for a while and is on our roster. If we were really trying our hardest to win then it seems like exum would not be starting and getting a good amount of minutes
 
I'm hoping the tank (losing games intentionally or not) continues for two reasons
#1 obviously to acquire more ping pong balls and hopefully get a better draft pick

#2 I'm hoping that the odds makers have us winning a low amount of games next year again so I can make a large bet on the over and get a nice profit.

If we win alot more games to finish the season, add good free agents + Burks + another lotto pick then I think Vegas might set our win total too high (maybe in the low 40's)

If we lose alot to end the season and still acquire good free agents + Burks + lotto pick maybe Vegas will think it's not enough to get us to 40 wins next year.

I'm thinking that next year, regardless of how we finish this season, we will be the 9th seed in the west and win somewhere around 45-47 games
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm hoping the tank (losing games intentionally or not) continues for two reasons
#1 obviously to acquire more ping pong balls and hopefully get a better draft pick

#2 I'm hoping that the odds makers have us winning a low amount of games next year again so I can make a large bet on the over and get a nice profit.

If we win alot more games to finish the season, add good free agents + Burks + another lotto pick then I think Vegas might set our win total too high (maybe in the low 40's)

If we lose alot to end the season and still acquire good free agents + Burks + lotto pick maybe Vegas will think it's not enough to get us to 40 wins next year.

I'm thinking that next year, regardless of how we finish this season, we will be the 9th seed in the west and win somewhere around 45-47 games
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I think you and Wes/QSH are kindred spirits.
 
nightmare3983 said:
I think you and Wes/QSH are kindred spirits.
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I agree.
I like alot of people on this forum but I think that mantooths hair is the one I would click with the best irl


And chris L. (I have met him in real life and he is just like most of the people i have been hanging out with for most of my life)
 
ONE LOVE said:
There is a tense fight for the 8th seed in the East with Brooklyn, Detroit, Charlotte and Indiana all with 23 wins, all fighting for the 8th spot. Unlikely any of these teams will let off (i.e., tank).


In the West, OKC (32 wins), Phoenix (30 wins) and NO (30 wins) are all fighting for the 8th spots as well.


In conclusion: I think this means the worst we could finish in terms of the draft spot could be the 9th pick (unless a team jumps in and grab a top 3 pick).
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We're back in a tie for 9th.


BOS seems to have joined the group of teams fighting for the 8th seed in the East now with x2 wins in a roll on the back of Isiah Thomas. Let's see if they can keep it up.

DET fading a bit I guess finding it difficult to integrate Reggie Jackson into their team. Here's hoping Van Gundy can pull the team back together (he's definitely not coaching to lose).

Brooklyn went into OT with Phoenix and lost, but they definitely want that 8th seed.

Indiana with a foot in already as we speak with Paul George potentially getting back & surprising some people.
 
Jazz likely to finish with 37 - 40 wins now. If Miami and Indiana go a couple games over .500 on their remaining games, they should stay ahead of us. Our last stretch of the season is actually pretty tough with multiple games against the Rockets, Grizzlies, and Blazers.

I think both Boston and Brooklyn want to win. It's possible one of them can end up ahead of us, and we'll draft 10th.
 
Dudes... I think it is time we accept that the Tank looks a lot like the Sherman tank at the end of Fury. It's over. Next time we talk about the Jazz tanking will be 15 years from now in the year 2030.
 
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