The Official "Stop WWIII" hype train

[The Thriller]

It should be known that although the rest of the country struggles to obtain non-filtered news, the North Korean government does not. They know their place in the food chain. That's why they developed nukes in the first place. They had no other option (other than give up their government).

Their number 1 priority is self preservation. That's why a gradual de-escalation isn't likely, as they know that once they ease control, they'll be butchered. Even compared to the USSR of China, their regime has been unbelievably brutal for so long. So deregulation like china or the USSR isn't possible without severe backlash from the populace.

They also know that a sudden nuclear strike would justify a United strike from the international community to relieve them of their place in the government.

So rest assured, no one of importance in North Korea wants war. That's the last thing they want. But like Hussein, Kim wants to project the perception of being a crazy madman with nothing to lose.

Ship em some food and medical supplies and they'll shut up again for 3 years.

 

[babe]

North Korea has a lot of ground troops and firepower, enough that Xi asked Trump "Hey, man, what do you expect me to do??" We assume NK is controllable by China nowadays, but have little understanding, really. The NK/China border is a lot like our Mexican border with millions of people going into China looking for jobs, taking any job. I don't imagine China controls NK any better than we control Mexico.....

There are, apparently, tunnels under the NK/SK border near Seoul enough that if war starts the South wouldn't even have a defined front line, and thousands of big guns within range of Seoul.

No, we don't want war there. Trump will not solve it by getting China to just give new directions to their so-called "puppet".

I'd opt to build an intense SDI-type defense that could just blow up their missiles within ten minutes of launch, and harden the area technologically against the fallout or the EMF as much as possible. uhhhmmm.... whaddya think, we could team up with Russian and China and just do a regime change, taking the present govt. to some re-education camps/ ha ha. / Looks like the UN isn't going to do any better than the League of Nations did in the 1930s with the Manchuria occupation.

How many basketball players like Rodman want to join the diplomatic service and go socialize with the big kid?

 

[The Thriller]

North Korea has a lot of ground troops and firepower, enough that Xi asked Trump "Hey, man, what do you expect me to do??" We assume NK is controllable by China nowadays, but have little understanding, really. The NK/China border is a lot like our Mexican border with millions of people going into China looking for jobs, taking any job. I don't imagine China controls NK any better than we control Mexico.....

There are, apparently, tunnels under the NK/SK border near Seoul enough that if war starts the South wouldn't even have a defined front line, and thousands of big guns within range of Seoul.

No, we don't want war there. Trump will not solve it by getting China to just give new directions to their so-called "puppet".

I'd opt to build an intense SDI-type defense that could just blow up their missiles within ten minutes of launch, and harden the area technologically against the fallout or the EMF as much as possible. uhhhmmm.... whaddya think, we could team up with Russian and China and just do a regime change, taking the present govt. to some re-education camps/ ha ha. / Looks like the UN isn't going to do any better than the League of Nations did in the 1930s with the Manchuria occupation.

How many basketball players like Rodman want to join the diplomatic service and go socialize with the big kid?

Extremely solid post. The comparison to us and Mexico is dead on.

Furthermore, it's my understanding that the north east portion of North Korea is their industrial center. Mines, railroads, and key ports have all been fought over by the Chinese, Japanese, and Russians in the past. One could argue that if unification happened, China could then dispute the border between the two nations, united Korea and China. China would attempt to annex parts of the north east giving them those industrial centers and ports. Looking long term, a United Korea could potentially work to annex Korean settled parts of north east china. If these border disputes occurred escalating to potential war, where would the United States stand?

These are the scenarios that could potentially erupt in addition to the mess of securing those nukes, rebuilding that country, and resolving the humanitarian crisis once that North Korean regime collapses.

Is the United Stares, as fractured as it is today, struggling with debt, and dealing with a completely unstable Middle East ready to deal with this?

Is South Korea really ready and willing to deal with a potential black hole that could drag its entire economy into ruin? Does china really want to deal with all of this when they essentially get everything they want (cheap labor, coal, sea ports) under Kim?

What does anyone gain by toppling this regime? Look at the cost vs benefits. Don't say safety and security. No one knows if toppling the Kim regime will leave the region in a safer and more stable state; especially in the short term where it's more than likely to become one of the world's biggest messes.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Give me a break. I extremely doubt you know any damn thing about that. And you can spare me your ignorant 'logic" about why that is. You don't know the first damn thing about living in a war zone.

ok, if you say so!

maybe not a war-zone that uses chemical weapons. but i lived in a south american warzone most of my youth!
no ignorant logic to tell you! just a fact of my LIVE!

i have known extreme rationing! because the govenrment thought it could redistribute wealth!

lines for bread and milk! toothpaste? there was only 1 ****ty kind! comming to europe/western worlds later in my live seeing supermarkets was weird with 20-30 kinda toothpaste. You do not know me!
i lived in war zone and Venezuela like COMMUNISM! it was my younger years! did not really understand it all until much later in live, my parents made it through, luckily i was a kid and did not have to worry about that stuff.

it was extreme, seems like Venezuela now probably has it WORSE! but i just might be misremmebering if we had it as worse as venezuela!


so how is that for logic. just personal experience from living through BOTH!

 

[DutchJazzer]

Lololololololol

Nice to know you'd run concentration camps, filter all news, and basically make yourself a god. And he's a little bit nuts?! Lololololololol

is it suprising? to me it is not! left wing ideologies have the hoighest bodycount, and the most concentration camps ever, from communist russia to national sozialism!


it is basically what they DO!

 

[DutchJazzer]

Not what I meant at all, as you well know. Of course I wouldn't run a country the same way as Korea. But it doesn't hurt to look at a situation from their point of view and how our actions appear to them and how that impacts their decisions, now does it?

some people are just EVIL!
so looking at them from their point of view is an exercise in futility!

 

[Stoked]

ok, if you say so!

maybe not a war-zone that uses chemical weapons. but i lived in a south american warzone most of my youth!
no ignorant logic to tell you! just a fact of my LIVE!

i have known extreme rationing! because the govenrment thought it could redistribute wealth!

lines for bread and milk! toothpaste? there was only 1 ****ty kind! comming to europe/western worlds later in my live seeing supermarkets was weird with 20-30 kinda toothpaste. You do not know me!
i lived in war zone and Venezuela like COMMUNISM! it was my younger years! did not really understand it all until much later in live, my parents made it through, luckily i was a kid and did not have to worry about that stuff.

it was extreme, seems like Venezuela now probably has it WORSE! but i just might be misremmebering if we had it as worse as venezuela!


so how is that for logic. just personal experience from living through BOTH!

You can't proclaim this is your personal experience all day long and I think you're full of it. None of that is war zone living but whatever.

 

[DutchJazzer]

You can't proclaim this is your personal experience all day long and I think you're full of it. None of that is war zone living but whatever.

ok, if you say so! thats your counter argument, accusing me of lying?

you either believe me or you dont. but when i say i rather live in warzone than communist regime, i speak form personal experience!
you have grown up in oppressive America, you think the whole world has it as nice and cosy throughout their live!
but thats not the way it goes bro!

there wasn't even tv. their was 1 state run channel. and a commercial channel which only was allowed to broadcast between 18:00-00:00 on special occasion like soccer matches they where allowed to broadcast that.!

 

[Gameface]

Unfortunately the Clippers won game 2. I think WWIII is inevitable.

#scorchedearth

 

[Rubashov]

Extremely solid post. The comparison to us and Mexico is dead on.

Furthermore, it's my understanding that the north east portion of North Korea is their industrial center. Mines, railroads, and key ports have all been fought over by the Chinese, Japanese, and Russians in the past. One could argue that if unification happened, China could then dispute the border between the two nations, united Korea and China. China would attempt to annex parts of the north east giving them those industrial centers and ports. Looking long term, a United Korea could potentially work to annex Korean settled parts of north east china. If these border disputes occurred escalating to potential war, where would the United States stand?

These are the scenarios that could potentially erupt in addition to the mess of securing those nukes, rebuilding that country, and resolving the humanitarian crisis once that North Korean regime collapses.

Is the United Stares, as fractured as it is today, struggling with debt, and dealing with a completely unstable Middle East ready to deal with this?

Is South Korea really ready and willing to deal with a potential black hole that could drag its entire economy into ruin? Does china really want to deal with all of this when they essentially get everything they want (cheap labor, coal, sea ports) under Kim?

What does anyone gain by toppling this regime? Look at the cost vs benefits. Don't say safety and security. No one knows if toppling the Kim regime will leave the region in a safer and more stable state; especially in the short term where it's more than likely to become one of the world's biggest messes.

The Chinese interest in propping up the PDRK is also that they do not want US bases and troops on their border. Which would certainly happen in a unified Korea.

 

[Red]

If the worry over the possibility of a WWIII breaking out over North Korea was heightened in part because American officials and Trump himself spoke of an "armada" steaming toward the Korean Peninsula, then by ploy or by miscommunication, the armada was in fact steaming in the opposite direction, away from Korea. If it was not true at the time it was said to be happening, at least some of those WWIII fears were based on erroneous statements by Trump officials, beginning with Sec. of Defence Mattis I guess....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...26c3a17bd41_story.html?utm_term=.bec38db5923d

 

[Stoked]

If the worry over the possibility of a WWIII breaking out over North Korea was heightened in part because American officials and Trump himself spoke of an "armada" steaming toward the Korean Peninsula, then by ploy or by miscommunication, the armada was in fact steaming in the opposite direction, away from Korea. If it was not true at the time it was said to be happening, at least some of those WWIII fears were based on erroneous statements by Trump officials, beginning with Sec. of Defence Mattis I guess....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...26c3a17bd41_story.html?utm_term=.bec38db5923d

I really see this one as nothing more than the media looking for controversy. The Carl Vinson was ordered to the Koreas. Do people expect the ship and it's escort to just teleport there? It takes time.

This very article talks about how people just assumed it was already there. Mattis or Trump never said the Vinson strike group was already there. Basically the Vinson strike group was carrying out other orders that took it towards Australia. It got the new Korean orders so it cancelled port visits in Australia and is working it's way north.

I don't see this as on Trump. Its on people making stupid assumptions instead of finding out facts to report.

 

[Stoked]

Wow...

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...ier-groups-korean-peninsula-article-1.3069538

Two more Carrier groups to be ordered near Korea. The Nimitz and Reagan carriers. This is in addition to the Vinson carrier group that is on it's way. (Group is the USS Carl Vinson, guided missile destroyers Wayne E. Meyer & Michael Murphy and the guided missile cruiser Lake Champlain)

3 carriers and supporting ships? That's intense. Damn

Edit:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/18/us-military-shoot-down-north-korea-missile-tests

US considering shooting down N. Korean missile tests. The ships with the USS Carl Vinson have that ability.

 

[♪alt13]

Using east and west Germany is a poor example. The differences between the two nations and the costs of uniting were a fraction to what the unification of north and South Korea would be. Plus, few of the parties nearby benefit economically.

Who says South Korea wants to even unite with North Korea? The disparity in GDP, per capita income, education, life expectancy, and even height leave most South Koreans anxious over the prospect of unification. The amount needed to rebuild and update North Korea would be in the trillions. In the meantime, millions of North Korean refugees would become the liability of both China and South Korea. Neither country has expressed interest in that. 20 percent of all North Korean defectors end up back in North Korea, unable to function in South Korean society. The percentage increases to well over 50 percent when it comes to drug trafficking and sex.

Lastly, North Korea has become the source of cheap labor for china and south Korea. Neither country has expressed interest in giving that up. Many times South Korea builds industrial parks near the border employing thousands of poor North Koreans who are paid near slave wages.

At this point, South Korea uniting with North would be like the United States adding Sudan or Sierra Leone.

Those looking for additional reading should read this article:

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/10/young-south-koreans-fear-unification-with-north-wo/

Or "The Real North Korea" by a former USSR scholar who spent many years in North Korea.

https://www.amazon.com/Real-North-Korea-Politics-Stalinist/dp/0199964297

Who say SK even wants to unite with Nk? SK does. Here is a link to the SK government agency "The Ministry of Unification".(english)
https://eng.unikorea.go.kr/main.do

Again it is not the aftermath that is the problem it is the presentmath.
It's likely that lots and lots of innocent people would die if there were a military intervention and China doesn't want US troops there. A coup is unlikely and a popular uprising doesn't even seem possible. Harsh sanctions will cause North Koreans to starve but are unlikely to effect lasting change in NK weapons program. All of that is why we don't act. It is not because SK would lose out on cheap labor. They can get that on the global market. The manufacturing centers in NK are an effort toward cooperation and to make NK more economically connected with China and SK and therefore they may overtime find common interest.

 

[addictionary]

ok, if you say so!

maybe not a war-zone that uses chemical weapons. but i lived in a south american warzone most of my youth!
no ignorant logic to tell you! just a fact of my LIVE!

i have known extreme rationing! because the govenrment thought it could redistribute wealth!

lines for bread and milk! toothpaste? there was only 1 ****ty kind! comming to europe/western worlds later in my live seeing supermarkets was weird with 20-30 kinda toothpaste. You do not know me!
i lived in war zone and Venezuela like COMMUNISM! it was my younger years! did not really understand it all until much later in live, my parents made it through, luckily i was a kid and did not have to worry about that stuff.

it was extreme, seems like Venezuela now probably has it WORSE! but i just might be misremmebering if we had it as worse as venezuela!


so how is that for logic. just personal experience from living through BOTH!

So basically, you are a (1)Jewish person with (2)Holland origins who grew up in (3)Venezuela that also is an (4)American conservative.

It is an amazing wonder of nature that a cosmopolit background person like you are such a fascist when it comes to politics.

 

[Stoked]

So basically, you are a (1)Jewish person with (2)Holland origins who grew up in (3)Venezuela that also is an (4)American conservative.

It is an amazing wonder of nature that a cosmopolit background person like you are such a fascist when it comes to politics.

You missed the part where he grew up in a warzone. So somewhere along the line he was living in Vietnam in the 60/70s, ME in the 90s or maybe Syria recently...

 

[Gameface]

I really see this one as nothing more than the media looking for controversy. The Carl Vinson was ordered to the Koreas. Do people expect the ship and it's escort to just teleport there? It takes time.

This very article talks about how people just assumed it was already there. Mattis or Trump never said the Vinson strike group was already there. Basically the Vinson strike group was carrying out other orders that took it towards Australia. It got the new Korean orders so it cancelled port visits in Australia and is working it's way north.

I don't see this as on Trump. Its on people making stupid assumptions instead of finding out facts to report.

The Carl Vinson strike group spent 4 days heading AWAY from the Korean peninsula after it was said that they were heading to that area.

 

[babe]

Look, folks, Trump has made a big show since his campaign over not telling foes what he's gonna do or not do. If he had a plan, he would misdirect attention somehow.

yah, "steaming" big armadas around the Pacific and Indian oceans means look at the Mediterranean..... or maybe even the Caribbean....

gotta get some food delivered to the starving masses in Venezuela somehow.....

 

[DutchJazzer]

So basically, you are a (1)Jewish person with (2)Holland origins who grew up in (3)Venezuela that also is an (4)American conservative.

It is an amazing wonder of nature that a cosmopolit background person like you are such a fascist when it comes to politics.

neve rsaid(or meant to say) i grew up in venezuela. i just meant to say it compares to Venezuela now! but i think venezuela might have it a bit worse! if i conveyed that i grew up in venezuela, i am sorry about that. it is not true


and holland is not my origin. i just lived there a couple of years. i chose the nicnmae DUTCHjazzer long before i went to holland. because i speak dutch i am not dutch

and i am not an american conservative. i have a severe distrust for government so i am somewhere between libertarian and conservative. also it helps that practicing judaism makes you a conservative/libertarian.

while being a "cultural jew" makes you a libtard

 

[DutchJazzer]

You missed the part where he grew up in a warzone. So somewhere along the line he was living in Vietnam in the 60/70s, ME in the 90s or maybe Syria recently...

contrary to popular beleive america does not have the patent on war!

there have been 100ths of war taht did not include the USA.

dont be such a narcissist, thinking your country has only waged war. or has been involved one way or another in every single war in my lifetime