The reality of Harris and Jefferson and any possible trade

[Stifle Tower]

I put a post on here and real gm offering Jefferson to Pacers for cap space so that Jazz could chase Wilson Chandler. Pacers fans declined. Says enough about Jefferson's value.

Yes, because Pacer fans on Real GM have the same basketball knowledge and decision-making power/ability of the 30 GM's around the league. An JJ Rage is correct. Why would Indiana want Jefferson if they already have Hibbert?

 

[cctrackstar]

How is it the Jazz continue to make deals and sign players who's value is far below what they are making in salary?

We didn't give either Al or Devin their overpaid contracts. As for why we have them, they were both the net effect of wanting to get some value out of a player who was leaving. Devin for Deron and Al for Boozer. Sure there were other pieces, some better than others, but as for those two contracts, that is why.

I have been thinking about things, and i have kind of decided that in a perfect world where teams rarely went over the cap and not by much, salary space is better than value because the team can pick their price and look for their type of players. Neither Devin or Al are ideal fits for the Jazz system, but we had to take them because they were the players that were available on the trade teams roster. If the Jazz were to instead work with salary cap space than they could pick from the entire NBA's free agent market and find small town kids who are more interested in winning than the bright lights.

That is what the new collective bargaining agreement was supposed to accomplish, but that doesn't help with former deals. Time will tell if the NBA brings things back to that ideal world where teams found their type of players on the open market, and only did trades to get that final piece to win a championship.



Yeah right.

 

[GVC]

The other thing to keep in mind is that, come March 1, the Jazz will have just short of $8mil in expiring contracts available in trades (CJ, Josh, Jamaal and Jeremy). That extra 2012 cap space could provide some incentive for other teams to make a trade for Al/Harris, provided they have longterm pieces or 2013 expirings for the Jazz.

 

[Bodhi]

Well, it all depends on your situation. If you have a destination you really want to reach (e.g. playoffs/championship) and your car is in the shop for extended repairs (i.e. a key injury), then you'll definitely spend on a rental/replacement. Harris and Jefferson are solid players. Howard, Bell and even Miles have value as "insurance"/depth for contenders. Trading high salaries is never easy, so I think it much more likely a couple of the latter mentioned players get traded, just like Utah did with Brewer. It might take a big injury on a contending team to make someone go after Harris or Jefferson.

I guess I can only partially agree. Talking only Harris or Jefferson straight up, in most situations the other team would have leverage in the situation. Now, if multiple players were involved and it was one of our guys (young most likely) of value they wanted we might have the leverage.

Long story short, I guess my argument is more about leverage and who has it.

 

[franklin]

Yes, because Pacer fans on Real GM have the same basketball knowledge and decision-making power/ability of the 30 GM's around the league. An JJ Rage is correct. Why would Indiana want Jefferson if they already have Hibbert?

You're going to have to put more situation in it than that, GE.
I understand the strength inside in Indy and stated as much.
If AJ is as good a piece as you're making him to sound then Indy should quickly accept, no?
If nothing else they could in-and-out him for the piece they need.

Can't discount a trading piece if you need to make a trade to put you in the hunt.
Indy needs to add something, whether it is by draft, FA, or trade.
They are unlikely to add something huge in draft.
FA may pan out but it probably won't.
Any trade that adds a fix gives them a deficit somewhere else.

Free player is best, low risk option.

 

[green]

one last small thing:

I'd actually like Jefferson as a 6th man. 25 minutes a night, carving up the opposing teams' 2nd unit.... his defensive woes masked some by the slight drop off of opposing talent. But, he's paid too much, and probably wouldn't take that role. Whatevar.

I LOVE Jefferson as an Antoine Carr type. I don't think he does though.

 

[Stifle Tower]

You're going to have to put more situation in it than that, GE.
I understand the strength inside in Indy and stated as much.
If AJ is as good a piece as you're making him to sound then Indy should quickly accept, no?
If nothing else they could in-and-out him for the piece they need.

Can't discount a trading piece if you need to make a trade to put you in the hunt.
Indy needs to add something, whether it is by draft, FA, or trade.
They are unlikely to add something huge in draft.
FA may pan out but it probably won't.
Any trade that adds a fix gives them a deficit somewhere else.

Free player is best, low risk option.

I'm just saying you can't judge a player's value, like you did, based on fan reaction from the Indiana Real GM site. And I never said Al was a great piece. I'm not sure how you read that into my post. My assertion is that GM's certainly have more knowledge of a players ability and value than random fans on an internet board.

Big Al might be untradeable right now. And maybe Harris as well. It's not easy swinging a deal with players earning that kind of money - unless they are franchise players like Deron, CP, etc. KOC may be better served trying to get assets for the vets that can help contenders and net Utah a late first or second round pick.

 

[candrew]

A few weeks ago I suggested Jefferson and Raja Bell for Kevin Martin and Chase Budinger. I think it's the most realistic trade bringing back the most value.


Martin doesn't seem happy in Houston under Kevin McHale.
McHale loves Jefferson
Houston needs a big man who can score.
McHale isn't playing Budinger

Move Hayward to starting SG and start Howard and SF and let Burks/Budinger back them up.

Promote Favors to the staring unit and pick up Renaldo Balkman to come off the bench.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

A few weeks ago I suggested Jefferson and Raja Bell for Kevin Martin and Chase Budinger. I think it's the most realistic trade bringing back the most value.


Martin doesn't seem happy in Houston under Kevin McHale.
McHale loves Jefferson
Houston needs a big man who can score.
McHale isn't playing Budinger

Move Hayward to starting SG and start Howard and SF and let Burks/Budinger back them up.

Promote Favors to the staring unit and pick up Renaldo Balkman to come off the bench.

Where does Kevin Martin play in this?

 

[orangello]

Where does Kevin Martin play in this?

I had the same thought.

 

[candrew]

Where does Kevin Martin play in this?

you then trade him to New Jersey for Deron Williams.

Whoops my bad.

 

[orangello]

you then trade him to New Jersey for Deron Williams.

Whoops my bad.

Done!!! It is funny to me that DWill has the exact skill set that this team is missing to be a legit contender. He can hit the 3 consistently, has great court vision and passing and he can be the go to player when the team needs to score. Too bad he is never coming back.

 

[Fishsticks]

Near 20/10 guys do not grow on trees. If we did not have the young bigs, we would not want to move Jefferson. I am no fan and want his *** gone, but think this board and the idiots on realgm total underestimate the value of al in the real world. He is not going to net an all star, but picks and or a serviceable starter are easily within reach.

 

[Ron Mexico]

It would take a third team but I think Miami would love Milsap, Jefferson, harris, Tinsely, or Howard from us. I think we could get one of their PG's and mike miller who could help our team. They would probably even give up haslem as well. I am sure Miller would be pissed to be traded to Utah though and might suck *** here. Miami might not be able to swing the cap room but Jefferson would be great on their team. They need a low block presence and they could have him come off the bench.

I cant really figure out the cap space but I think they are a team that would love our vets and have a few players we might want.

 

[Fishsticks]

It would take a third team but I think Miami would love Milsap, Jefferson, harris, Tinsely, or Howard from us. I think we could get one of their PG's and mike miller who could help our team. They would probably even give up haslem as well. I am sure Miller would be pissed to be traded to Utah though and might suck *** here. Miami might not be able to swing the cap room but Jefferson would be great on their team. They need a low block presence and they could have him come off the bench.

I cant really figure out the cap space but I think they are a team that would love our vets and have a few players we might want.

Interesting. Miami does seem like a good fit for many of our players. I could only see us wanting cole so a third team would need to be involved.

 

[franklin]

Near 20/10 guys do not grow on trees. If we did not have the young bigs, we would not want to move Jefferson. I am no fan and want his *** gone, but think this board and the idiots on realgm total underestimate the value of al in the real world. He is not going to net an all star, but picks and or a serviceable starter are easily within reach.

I get this, Box, but I'd rather take the dump him and watch the draft pick rise route. This team is setting up for annual early round exits. Let's quit pretending that Jazz are retooling and just get the damn rebuild over with quick. That might actually give us all something to get really excited about. I mean real excited, not D-Will,Memo,Gym Bag excited while knowing deep down the Jazz aren't as good as LAL or SAS.

I want to be truly excited like an OKC fan is right about now.

 

[orangello]

I want to be truly excited like an OKC fan is right about now.

I am jealous of them right now. I know that I have said this before but I am perfectly content following the Jazz even if that means that they are losing, and losing bad as long as the young guys get serious minutes.

Please, I don't need anyone else respond back that the vets are teaching the young guys to win. It was a joke at the beginning of the season and it is beyond laughable now.

 

[Zulu]

I want to trade Al more than Harris! With Al gone the youngs get time!

 

[freakazoid]

Near 20/10 guys do not grow on trees. If we did not have the young bigs, we would not want to move Jefferson.... the idiots on realgm total underestimate the value of al in the real world. He is not going to net an all star, but picks and or a serviceable starter are easily within reach.

Agree. Al and Harris both have limited trade value, but some people seem to be confusing that with negative value.

 

[BluesRocker]

We just have to cut our losses with big Al. We paid alot for him but o well. But I just can't see KOC see doing it. He is determined to prove a point I think.

Im sure one of these vet teams would do it for some cheap stuff back. Even a late first rounder, a young guy, and a bloated contract. Hopefully just not too long